"Part P in force by 2004"

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On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:39:27 -0000, "James"

I don't doubt for a minute that many amateur installations will be as good as a professional job. However even though a professional might rush a job his experience of doing many similar jobs is likely to compensate, and invariably his job, rushed or otherwise, will pass muster.
The thing is that if a jury had to reach a conclusion then the amateur would be laying everything on the line. His home, other possessions, everything. That's because he's taken on a job which conceivably he should not have done because he doesn't have the background and training.
PoP
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I noticed that some of the twin and earth I have been using has the year stamped on the insulation every meter or so with raised numbering, ie.it's part of the insulation not printed in ink.I don't know what the purpose of this is but it will certainly make it difficult to claim that the wiring was installed before the year stamped on the cable.
I don't recall where I bought the reel, either Wickes or TLC. Maybe this will be a requirement for all cable manufacturers?
Adrian.
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Same here with Pirelli cable bought from Screwfix - though oddly only on the 1mmsq. The 2.5 doesn't seem to have a year, though it does have other information. Nothing at all on the 10mm, and I don't have the 6mm to hand to check :-)
Hwyl!
M.
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"Adrian M." wrote | I noticed that some of the twin and earth I have been using has | the year stamped on the insulation every meter or so with raised | numbering, ie.it's part of the insulation not printed in ink.I | don't know what the purpose of this is but it will certainly make | it difficult to claim that the wiring was installed before the | year stamped on the cable. | I don't recall where I bought the reel, either Wickes or TLC. | Maybe this will be a requirement for all cable manufacturers?
I don't want to panic anyone, but the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister is wanting to bring this scheme in for APPLIANCES. So you will need a NICEIC electrician to plug in your table lamps. Or perhaps Sarah Wooller of the In House Policy Consultancy is lacking some understanding in the subject. (My emphasis below)
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_bre g_023646-01.hcsp#P42_1057
or
www.odpm.gov.uk > Building Regulations > Competent persons self-certification schemes under the Building Regulations > Existing competent person schemes
Conclusion and Main Recommendations ... It is likely to be worth extending the self-certification schemes to a limited number of areas of the Building Regulations. ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES is likely to be a good candidate as are other areas where work is common, internal to the house, often undertaken as discrete projects, and where companies have an incentive for joining the scheme.
Owain
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<fx: knocks on open door>
Of course, the consultation paper shows that the chances of an accident due to fixed wiring are slight - 576 injuries per year - and of a fatality, negligible (5 per year). This is in the context of 30-odd million domestic properties in the UK.
I haven't seen any data about whether these accidents are caused by old wiring or during the DIY or professional installation of new wiring, or after new DIY or professional installations, so the figures we are really dealing with for non-fatal and fatal injries could quite easily be 0 per year and 0 per year respectively.
Regards
Neil
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I think it will mainly involve new installations in new builds, to begin with anyway, but as each property is sold and moves along the trail of new owners, the regulations will eventually catch up with everyone.
These new requirements will mean that any house sold will have to have a certificate issued to the vendor before anyone will be allowed to pass the property on as being in a safe, as possible, condition when it was sold. So any additional work that you've carried out in the house will then be tested and documented and will show all the variations which you've carried out and are not documented on a previously issued certificate that was given to you when you bought the house.
So the new scheme does have a good workable scheme in this sense and should eventually be able to show that the property has had changes done without permissions or proper testing certifications when it comes to time of sale. If you're living in it and it doesn't comply to these requirements, then I'd imagine you'd be severely dealt with if the new additions which are not covered by previous tests are found to be the cause of any loss or damage to other properties around yours.
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But the certificates I've seen don't detail the wiring in terms of a wiring diagram anyway so you can't tell whether anything has been added from the certificate.
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But if a certificate is issued after the system is tested, then means your additions passed the test and comply with current standards. Different matter altogether if your additions don't pass the tests.
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... but (again!) you still can't really tell from the certificate what has been tested unless it's a very small addition/change. A certificate won't detail the position (or even number) of sockets, lights and other appliances which have been tested will it?
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your
Exactly, potentially you (or Council, or purchaser) could get it tested whilst it was safe and then next day add new stuff and there's no way of knowing (AFAIK) whether the new stuff was included in the test. The paperwork would just state that on that date it was safe/okay.
D
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On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:11:31 GMT, "BigWallop"

And from what I recall, if you make any alterations to an existing circuit then you are required to ensure that the complete circuit is up to 16th edition regs even if it wasn't before.
So you can't add a spur and just test the spur.
PoP
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wrote:

I suppose that it could, but I was simply thinking about the practicalities. If wiring were being done as part of work that was otherwise being inspected for building regulations purposest then it would perhaps be noticed by the building inspector.
Otherwise, how would building control departments ever know about it? The only scenarios I can think of are if they did spot inspections on people's property (not likely) or if a neighbourhood busybody cared to report something. However, an addition of a circuit or even a complete rewire is not going to be as externally visible as a new brick built extension.

Who knows? I was simply remarking on the (lack of) enforceability which makes the whole caper pointless anyway. Remember that the whole thing was not based on sound evidence in the first place and the RIA used information selectively to arrive at the desired political conclusion. Therefore, trying to apply logic to the situation is going to be difficult anyway.
There are not that many scenarios:
- The person who DIYs, doesn't have a clue, and makes a dangerous mess of the job. It's doubtful that he would take any notice of any new legislation, even if he became aware of it. This work would likely be picked up at conveyancing time in a survey and corrections, including ripping out and redoing the work requested by the buyer. It may even involve a regularisation application for building regulations purposes, but since a buyer might well specifiy that an approved contractor is used, then that becomes a non-issue. In the meantime, something bad could happen, resulting in loss of property or life. There is little or no evidence that this happens from fixed wiring issues, but from portable appliances. If it does, non-compliance with building regulations is going to rank rather lower in the person's problems than the other effects thereof.
- The person who DIYs and does a competent and conscientious job. Three choices here. a) He submits a building notice, pays the charge and gets it inspected. b) He waits and goes for regularisation at some point in the future at virtually no extra cost. c) He waits until conveyancing time.
- The person who employs a non-registered contractor to do the work. If said contractor wears spurs, then he is not likely to advertise to the customer that testing and certification is required. The householder is likely to be blissfully unaware anyway.
- The person who employs the registered contractor and pays the unregulated stealth tax.

.andy
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True. In fact the only thing that's likely to give it away is the new coloured cable, which will be hidden anyway. So if it was found later it would just need regularisation.
Cheers, Al
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Al Reynolds wrote:

I'm sure the black market in traditionally coloured cable will help those not willing to be subject to the new diktats...
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Is there an official designation for new cable? For example, I believe that the current standard for T&E is BS6004 - 6242Y. What are the equivalent numbers for the new stuff - so we can all make sure we stock up with the current stuff and don't buy the new stuff by accident?
Roger
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that
This could be double edged. You need the old colours if you wish to pass off new work as old work. However if you require building control regularisation at some point in the future, this could be difficult if it does not comply because the colours show (what may be then) non-compliant cable has been used.
James
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Well ok, but presumably if you're successful in passing off new work as old work, it is deemed to be outside the scope of Building Control - so that regularisation doesn't come into it?
Roger
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On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:40:41 -0000, "Andy Wade"

It will be interesting to see whether others than NICEIC will be allowed.......

The smell of fudge cooking strengthens by the minute.......

.andy
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