Part P consultation - DIY compliance easier

[Neil Williams]

This is a good idea, as if something dangerous occurs, a swift repair that perhaps isn't absolutely perfect in terms of compliance with the regs, but is safe, is vastly better than not repairing because you can't afford or get an electrician, or because you have to wait for the Council.

Indeed, I've argued before (mainly devil's advocate, but I think there's *something* in it) that a legal requirement for a PIR to be carried out by a qualified[1] electrician and passed in an inhabited building every N years (a bit like an MoT) would do a lot more for electrical safety than anything in Part P, either the current or proposed version. You could maybe add that if changes above a certain magnitude are carried out (e.g. a new circuit or a full re-wire) that that could prompt one being required immediately. So notifiable, but not in the same way.

[1] Qualified, with qualification(s) specified, not membership of one of these silly overpriced Part P schemes. So if I wish to be qualified myself for non-commercial reasons, I should be able to be qualified by taking the appropriate training and passing the appropriate examinations, perhaps on a periodic basis. These Part P schemes are out of (financial) reach of such a DIYer and so don't count.

Neil

[Dave Liquorice]

Nothing to stop you studying for and taking the appropiate C&G exams. You are then qualified and can sign off your own work. Contact your local further education establishments.

The Part P schemes are there so that a company can let any monkey do electrical work but be covered by the firms Part P membership. The monkeys are supposed to "trained" but wether they have to have the relevant C&G pass certificates is another matter...

[A.Lee]

Not really. Paperwork is minimal, to do it properly, you'd have to fill in a Minor Works, or Electric Installation form anyway, then it takes maybe 2 minutes online to notify a new job at a cost of £1.80.

£450/yr to be a member of one of the schemes is what irks. However, I can see benefits, in that they do check 2 jobs a year (yes, I know, these 2 can be perfect, then your others can be rubbish), but, if you have paid so much to be 'self-certifying', then you'd really like to keep your membership, hence you want to make all of your jobs to a good standard, so you do a good job all of the time, whereas someone who is not a part of a scheme, will not have the problem of a Governing body chastising him if his work is not up to standard on a job that has been reported to them.

It doesnt help with non-scheme people who are not following the rules (and Law), but, on the whole, anyone who has paid to be a member will be aware that they should be doing a good job every time, and their customers have a come-back if the work is shoddy, by reporting it to the Governing body.

Alan.

[Andrew Gabriel]

It's up to your local BCO what they will accept. It seems that at least some will accept being properly qualified with C&G certificate.

[js.b1]

Not if solid as a complete kit.

- There is a section in SI2006 which makes it clear that any outdoor circuit may be installed where it comprises a pre-made kit (essentially fit together parts).

- Such kits range from a minimal outside socket, to a full pond kit, to an SWA armoured cable run to the shed.

They are completely legal and do not require notifying.

The simple solution with Part P is so all hands win. #1 - Inland Revenue want the paper trail for commercial work and closing IR35-#2. #2 - Competent scheme bodies want their welfare gravy train and audi catalog. #3 - Competent scheme members want their gold plated screwdriver & PV on the roof. #4 - DIY people want to fix the crap kitchen fitters to dolphin to subb'd electrical work left them. #5 - Non-DIY people want protection from shark electricians.

All hands win when...

1 - all work done for commercial gain must be done by competent scheme members AND must be to BS7671 AND members must be qualified instead of allowing subbing to labourers who cover up the work and collect the cash (THAT must end because that is where a lot of the bad workmanship and unsafe work has come from re deaths, vis., MP daughter). 2 - all work done by DIY must not be for commercial gain AND must be to BS7671.

That last bit catches bad workmanship of DIY.

Very simple even the gov't should see the light.

[A.Lee]

Which is utter bollocks, as, if she knew how to fit new sockets properly, she would also know the limitations and dangers of extension leads. And, being educated, she should also know that Building Control Depts in local Councils are not in the slightest bit bothered about people performing electrical work in their own homes so long as it is up to standard, and, more importantly, no-one has reported the person doing it, and it hasnt caused any injury.

Even when you report it, they are not at all bothered. I reported one before Christmas, for the householder, but they said they cannot check it, but if I could do it myself, they'd pass it if my report said it was good.

It is becoming quite common nowadays to blame someone else for your own failings, which this lady has seemed to do.

[Darren's News]

The trouble with these schemes is that they are only interested in you money. The only qualifications needed to join are having completed a part P course (5 to 10 days) and possibly gaining the17th edition within the first 12 months. Having been involved in the teaching of some of these courses along with the normal C&G courses, I know how abolutely hopeless many people are, but it is almost impossible to fail the exams these days. Few members of the public know about Part P, but those who do probably don't realise that the guy who changed their consumer last week, may have been road sweeper until 2 months previous. Despite, what should happen, getting kicked out of one of the schemes is almost unheard of, and reporting shoddy work to the scheme operators will not acheive very much.

The only way to have any certainty of the abilty of an electrician is to ask to see their qualifications, I recommend to people that they don't use anybody unless they have passed an inpection and testing exam, preferably the 2391.

I was in one of the schemes for a year, but I thought it very poor value, and as it proves nothing of abilty or quality I decided not to renew. I now work unregistered, I always tell my customers what I can and can't do but most don't care about the notification aspect. I do though, guarantee my work, and issue all of the correct certification.

[Dave - Cyclists VOR]

So where does that leave the lady with a faulty dimmer switch? The one who has called 8 electricians who weren't interested?

[John Rumm]

Made by who though? (could your local electrical wholsaler sell you a "kit" of parts for your shed submain for example?

These were probably the two biggest drivers I am sure. Especially after it became clear that the safety justification initially given was bogus (i.e. the stats had not be understood).

That one is less convincing. Yes there will be some desire among trades to differentiate their service from the great unwashed of non scheme members, but there does not seem to be sufficient recognition within joe public of the significance to make this a significant ongoing desire.

Can't see that one being a runner... even stipulating BS7671 without allowing comparable EU standards would probably fall foul of EU law these days. More to the point, what do you count as "qualified" and also for what?

Does chasing a wall count as wiring? laying in cable but not connecting? Fixing cable supports etc? There are many shades of grey for which it would not necessarily be economically viable to insist on using "expensive" labour.

Not sure about the commercial gain bit - again how do you draw the lines, and how do you police it. The bit about stipulating a minimum standard of work is ok, but then again, I can't really see many casual DIYers forking out the significant cost of the BS documents just to do a few minor works. There is certainly an argument for disseminating more information and guidance for DIYers, at an affordable cost though.

Never assume that because something makes sense it will be attractive to government!

[jgharston]

Also, people who know what they're talking about are banned from taking part in anything to do with it. When I was a local councillor because I was a small private landlord, I was barred from having anything to do with housing matters.

Similarly, at one point I was taken off the IT Steering Group because "I knew about IT".

JGH

[charles]

As a Parish Councillor, I can tell you that the law changed in this respect.