Part P consultation - DIY compliance easier

[Andrew Gabriel]

I will probably respond (hopefully I will have time), and happy to share. Started reading it last night.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Actually, we did get attention last time - what did it was the list of people backing the response with all their qualifications - I was told they were very impressed by that. That was the one and only time I have ever used mine (and I've dropped my professional membership since then).

The problem was they weren't actually interested in listening to the responses last time. We even pointed out the fault in their calculation of electrical accidents, which the ODPM did own up to some months after they'd implemented Part P - that was a key part of the justification out the window, but too late.

[Robin]

I am way out of date but during consultations there used to be plenty of contact not treated as FoI requests and I'd seen benefits in not using the FoIA if it were possible to engage the (probably) economist who provided the cost-benefit analysis. Making that contact could allow a constructive dialogue instead of the formality of FoIA . But I don't have much hope of success on this or on anyone getting DCLG to move from the position they have now adopted after listening to their "external partners". What we really need is The Sun etc etc reporting:

"Red tape killed my babies

John Prescott blamed for 3 children dead in house fire in Hackney.

Grieving mother Jane Doe said last night:

'The fire brigade say the fire started in a trailing socket which was faulty. I wanted to fit extra sockets. I am a graduate engineer and know how to do it properly. But John Prescott's red tape meant Hackney Council demanded over £500 to check my work. As a working single mother I can't afford that.

David Cameron wants to scrap EU red tape. But this is home grown red tape which has destroyed my life.' "

(Fact check: Hackney Council's minimum BN charge for any notifiable domesticv electrical work is £562.20.)

[Neil Williams]

I think a well-publicised withdrawal of the whole thing would most probably reduce work for electricians and handymen, as an awful lot of people think you're not allowed to do *any* work yourself, whereas even under the current Part P the amount of work you can do yourself is still quite substantial.

Neil

[Neil Williams]

Despite what some people think, fitting extra sockets other than in a kitchen or bathroom (so long as it's not a new circuit) is not notifiable.

Ouch. I've recently been moaning enough about Milton Keynes Council's charge of about a third of that, or worse the one that says that if I DIY replace the window and door in my porch (one of only two single glazed windows) I've got to spend =A3193 getting them to come out and spend five seconds looking at the symbol in the corner of the glass.

Neil

[Alan Braggins]

Even if his judgement of what he can and can't do is just as good or better than whoever writes Part P, it might be easier for him to turn down work by saying "sorry, that's notifiable work, regulations don't allow me to do it" rather than saying "sorry, that's not the sort of job I want to take on".

(I don't understand why Part P makes a difference to whether someone who is a specialized electrician can make money out of a small job or not though, or whether they leave it to someone who can fit a toilet siphon at the same time.)

[Neil Williams]

True, but I don't think it is the role of legislation to provide a way for a tradesman to decline work he doesn't want without upsetting the customer. His decision of what work to take and not to, and how to handle customer services about such things, is his own choice.

Neil

[The Medway Handyman]

That is easier with existing customers.

AFAIK its the extra paperwork & admin which ties up their time.

[David Robinson]

[snip]

That's exactly what our local building control asked me to do. Local firm, =A3140 to test full re-wire. No extra BC fees, as it came under that for a larger project. Didn't really meet Part P as far as I could tell, because the person inspecting the installation had no idea whether I'd run cables diagonally etc, but BCO was happy and issued the certificate.

However, if I wanted to run a new circuit for something now (material cost < =A350, time cost < one weekend), I think I'd find BC+inspection fees objectionable. Since I had to do the right thing last time, the current house electrics are very well documented, and any new circuits would be immediately obvious (if anyone checked).

I can't see a "third party qualified electrician" charging a competitive rate to test a new circuit, so (b) probably doesn't solve the problem.

The reality is that those who kill by their electrical work (if more than one person _is_ killed by dodgy fixed electrics per year) will continue to do so, part P or no part P - it's just a pain for those of us who do want to do things by the book. As such, it brings zero benefit and should be scrapped.

Cheers, David.

[Fredxx]

Perhaps you should reply to them with this article? The more people put their point of view the better. Currently I doubt any DIYer has been asked for their opinion.

[Fredxx]

What evidence do you have of that?

[John Rumm]

It sounds like they have made the same error again. However the rise in the number is interesting. If as I suspect the number of deaths from fixed electrical work has actually risen since Part P, then that alone would support immediate suspension of it - even if only for further investigation.

[John Rumm]

Indeed, but you don't actually need the backing of the statute to decide on and stick to a list of jobs that you will and won't undertake.

Understood - and the list of such jobs currently in Part P may well be useful as a guide to you. That list would not cease to exist should part P itself be scrapped however.

[Andrew Gabriel]

I haven't read it in detail yet, but I thought I saw something about the rate falling, and hence it was suggested it would go back up again if Part P was removed? Don't have it on me at the moment to check.

The rate was certainly falling year by year prior to Part P.

[John Rumm]

Even if there has been a fall under the current regime, it would be interesting to plot the existing trend prior to regulation and see if any recent fall shows any steeping of that trend.

[the_constructor]

[snip]

That's exactly what our local building control asked me to do. Local firm, £140 to test full re-wire. No extra BC fees, as it came under that for a larger project. Didn't really meet Part P as far as I could tell, because the person inspecting the installation had no idea whether I'd run cables diagonally etc, but BCO was happy and issued the certificate.

However, if I wanted to run a new circuit for something now (material cost < £50, time cost < one weekend), I think I'd find BC+inspection fees objectionable. Since I had to do the right thing last time, the current house electrics are very well documented, and any new circuits would be immediately obvious (if anyone checked).

I can't see a "third party qualified electrician" charging a competitive rate to test a new circuit, so (b) probably doesn't solve the problem.

The reality is that those who kill by their electrical work (if more than one person _is_ killed by dodgy fixed electrics per year) will continue to do so, part P or no part P - it's just a pain for those of us who do want to do things by the book. As such, it brings zero benefit and should be scrapped.

Cheers, David.

Just to go off at a tangent for a moment, but can anyone answer me this. scenario: a middle aged couple own a house, through no fault of their own they are having to live on benefits. There is a problem with the electrics, which, the person could put right but it would involve Part P work. Does he do the work because he can't afford the costs of BC and electricians, who does he turn to.? Credit rating no good so can not get loans or even afford to pay for them if he could. There must be hundreds of people who this scenario fits..... I hasten to add, I don't fall into this scenario .... YET !! Jim G

[hugh]

What about outdoors?

[hugh]

In message , the_constructor writes

Or local council has Care and repair service for the over 60s. They will provide someone to do small jobs at a rate of £11 for up to 2 hours work. They will provide low cost loans to people on benefits and will assist in drawing up plans and finding a contractor. The aim is to help people live active lives and stay in their own homes, thus giving a payback by reducing demand for care.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Most repairs ("a problem with the electrics") are not notifiable. Obviously if it's so bad it needs rewiring, then that's different.

[Neil Williams]

That is also currently notifiable, sorry. My omission.

Neil