OT (longish) Fire service & flood pumping

[dave]

A few years ago our street was flooded. Fortunately for us the houses on our side of the street are about 2' height that those on the other. The lower side *was* flooded to the extent that the floorboards were under about a foot of water.

When the fire service arrived they started pumping one of those houses out and ran a hose from the house about 30 yards to drain cover which they had opened in the road..

Now before they started pumping, I had lifted a drain cover in our back garden and the water in there was about 3 bricks height from the top. Pretty much as soon as they started pumping, the "water" in that drain rose rapidly to nearly fill the drain. It seemed pretty clear the level had risen because the drain in the road was itself full to capacity and the water was backing up in other drains.

I had a word with the fire Chief(?) and mentioned this to him and he said "well where are we going to pump it then?" I tried to point out that this pumping was in fact going to flood the houses on the other (our) side of the street when they were at the moment just about clear, and that the flooded houses were already flooded anyway.

No effect. He carried on pumping. In the event the rain stopped and we just escaped being flooded.

I mention the above because I just saw on the news today that the fire service had been pumping water from the river Don and effectively flooded a housing estate because of exactly the same reason as I outlined above. ie the water filled the drains and backed up into the houses. Their houses are, apparently, build on clay soil and so the water/raw sewage is just going to sit there for ages.

Now I can see that sometimes there are reason that they have to pump. But I do feel that sometimes they (the fire service) feel they "must do something" - when in fact it may not be the best thing to do.

This could be an interesting legal point should it come to it.

I thought maybe post the on the legal NG's sometime but just wonder what the knowledgeable folk here think first.

btw, I hope it doesn't come across as being unreasonable about my own near miss. If the pumping would have done anything to help our neigbours across the road -ok, pump away. But AFAIK see it served no useful purpose and risked flooding us.

[Peter Johnson]

Now that strikes a chord. When I joined a fire service control centre nearly 40 years ago one of the old men told me that with flooding there wasn't much point in turning out until the rain had stopped, when most of it would recede anyway and we would tell people to call back when the rain had stopped. As time went on, and those in authority had less experience, there was increased reluctance to take this approach. In a simlar vein, kids set fire to grass in the summer just to be entertained by the fire crew. One year at the beginning of the summer holidays the kids rang up to report a grass fire in a regular spot and I refused to turn out. They rang again a bit later and I held my ground. That was the last time we ever had a grass fire reported at that location. I often felt that we made situations worse by attending but I was in a minority.

[ARWadsworth]

Have you got a reference for this. I have seen the fire brigade pumping water INTO the River Don via 2km hoses NOT from the river Don. I was there Friday morning at 7.30 am and it definately went into the Don.

Adam

[Rob]

I must have been watching the same thing on TV. I wondered exactly where they would pump the water to. If it can be proved that fire service actions caused further problems then you can claim against them. It doesn't make sense to pump water in to an already full drain.

[Roger]

The message from "ARWadsworth" contains these words:

FWIW the news item I remember from yesterday was about pumping from the beck in Bentley into the Don and one of the comments was that they were doing this now the the level of The Don had reduced far enough to allow it.

Looking at the map the beck doesn't join The Don till some way downstream. If the altitude on my digital 1:50000 can be relied upon the main road in Bentley is only about 16 feet above mean sea level at the lowest point which may be below the level of The Don at its closest point.

[John]

Went to look at a river today (Derwent). I was amazed at the amount of debris that was threatening to block bridges. I wonder if enough is done to clear debris from rivers and river banks. I also wonder if rivers should be dredged in places to increase the capacity. Slow moving rivers silt up - should they be dredged in times of drought when JCBs could be used.

[ARWadsworth]

Look at the pic. You are correct

the black stripe down the middle is water. Someone is building flats where the black line ends!!!

Adam

[Andy Burns]

Before posting a link to a google maps URL, you need to click on "link to this page" otherwise the URL you copy goes to the location you started at, rather than the one you have zoomed/scrolled to.

[Mary Fisher]

Who's going to pay for it?

Mary

[John]

Environment Agency - they have responsibility for rivers. It needs doing otherwise we get more floods and more costs

[The Medway Handyman]

That would involve forward planning John - nobody allows for that in the budget.

[Owain]

Why can't they sell the sludge on Ebay to Americans wanting a piece of the "old country"

Owain

[Doctor Drivel]

Making it deeper will not guarantee a faster flow maintaining a deep channel. Also making it deeper will usually make the water lower than normal making high quays. Not as easy as you think.

In Sheffield the removal of peat which acted as a sponge contributed. Flood plains should be re-introduced in many areas.

[Andy Burns]

http://89.234.45.183/index.htm

[Mary Fisher]

And where does the EA get its money?

Mary

[zikkimalambo]

Same place as the insurance companies and the Gubermint's emergency continngency fund.

[Jethro]

And the environment agency gets a bigger budget next year .....

[Mary Fisher]

Never heard of Gubermint.

>

[Mary Fisher]

From where?

>

[Jethro]

Well, the way they spend it, they probably believe in a budget fairy. However, the sad reality is you & I :-(