new washing machine advice

[Stephen]

Hello,

My old Hotpoint washing machine has died. It was making a noise on the spin so I replaced the bearings and was very proud of myself. It only lasted a couple of weeks! We did a wash yesterday morning and that was fine. then e put another wash in and the drum had seized solid. I'm puzzled how one minute it was turning and the next it was not.

I know I could replace the bearings again but SWMBO wants a new machine. I know Borsch and Miele are recommended here. I don't think I could afford a Miele (I think they are over 1000) so I will look at Bosch.

I think that some Bosch machines are made with split tubs in Germany and the cheaper ones are made somewhere else with sealed tub. Is there an easy way to find out which model had which type of tub? It would be nice to have a split tub so that bearings could be changed in the future.

Is there any advice on what to buy or not to buy feature wise? One well known web site said not to bother with a spin over 1200rpm because it claims you do not extract significantly more water. It also said that 6kg capacity was sufficient and that anything larger caused more vibration because there was less space between the tub and the case. However I cannot find anyone selling anything less than 8kg load.

Thanks, Stephen.

[DerbyBorn]

If I consider "Cost of Ownership" over about a 30 year period then Indesit have not let me down. I consider them to be disposable in the event of a major failure. However, I have also found them reliable and the biggest repair was a set of brushes in one. I cannot remember why I eventually relaced any of them. (Make way for Miele fans!)

[Bob Eager]

The more expensive Logixx range appears to be made in Germany. We've had one for two years now and it's excellent. very good build quality, qiet and efficient. It's a world away from Hotpoint. We managed to get it discounted (from Comet!) so shop around.

The next range down, not sure about. below that, definitely made elsewhere.

Sorry, don't know about the split tub. Not that that's necessarily a guide; our *old* Hotpoint (not the newer one) had a one piece tub but nevertheless the bearings were replaceable.

I wouldn't worry about that. Sounds like "Which?" rubbish to me...they are experts on nothing.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Hard to imagine what would do that, unless the bearing collapsed so badly the drum is jammed against the outer drum. Another possibility would be something has got jammed between the two drums.

Depends what you expect when you take things out. A towel taken from a 1600 RPM spin, whilst not dry, has little enough water left in it that you can use it to dry you. If you are going to use energy to do the remaining drying (tumble drier, drying over radiators or hanging in a heated house, etc), then the faster spin drying is much more efficient than the heat taken from your home in the longer drying time.

The force on the water is proportional to twice the spin speed, so

1400 RPM is 36% high and 1600 RPM is 77% higher drying force than 1200 RPM. However, it's true that most of the water is ejected when it's done the initial spin at around 300RPM.

My preference has always been to go for highest spin speed, and no tumble drier capability. I used a dehumidifier drier cupboard if I need things completely dried quickly after a 1600RPM spin.

That sounds like bullshit. The larger drum diameter also improves the effectiveness of the spin.

I think this relates rather more to the shorter life expectancy of modern machines. If you took a 20 year old machine with a 6kg rating and ran it at 8-9kg, it would probably last about 5 years, which is the life expectancy of most machines nowadays. It doesn't mean there was any significant design change to handle the extra weight. (There are significant design changes to handle the higher spin speeds.)

I did once weight out the max rated load for my machine, and I don't think you be able to physically fit it in the drum.

[Brian Gaff]

Panasonic do some nice ones at the budget end I can atest, but the last two I had were Hoover and Service, sadly both, though long lasting, are now no longer owned by the people who built them in their day and I'm always suspicious when this happens and sadly its happening a lot recently! The Panasonics look and feel sturdy to me and mine is working fine, though I cannot quite get used to it making decisions on how long it will take for a load on some arbitary factor as yet unknown!

Brian

[Brian Gaff]

I was warned off LG as the direct drive innards are appraently very expensive to fix if they ever can be. Biko, interestingly have quite a few fans, but to me they look cheap and flimsy, I guess its really depeendent on how much they get used.

Brian

[fred]

In article , Stephen writes

For someone on a budget I have recently pointed them in the general direction of Beko and specifically to one with a high spin speed and a hand wash cycle. In contrast with some mainstream brands the spares are readily available and cheap (googled the part number and spares to find the cost and availability of the major bits and all were reasonable)

I have never owned one though . . . . .

[Peter Parry]

Bosch, Siemens, Neff and Gaggenau are all part of one company and often sell the same items at different prices under different brand names.

A not uncommon cause of jammed drums (often preceded by loud screeching sounds (from the washing machine that is) is the thick wires used in some female chest support garments coming out in the wash and lodging between the drum and case, the wire can fit through the holes in the drum.

[polygonum]

The motors themselves appear to have a 10 year warranty from LG.

[Dave Liquorice]

But if it takes a fitter the best part of a day to get access, swap out, rebuild and test you are still going to have a considerable bill outside the complete machine warranty period...

[Jeremy Nicoll - news posts]

I've only ever owned secondhand washing machines - two that were in houses I bought, and one from the local repair man. In the latter's case he bemoaned the difficulty in repairing machines which have increasing amounts of electronics in them, and I was happy to wait until he could sell me a reconditioned older model, of the sort that he's happy to continue to work on.

My mother recently changed her machine (a washer/drier) and is not happy with the new one - it had too many buttons on the front; the programme dial doesn't rotate as it runs through a programme (just picks the starting point) and - worst of all - the quickest normal wash takes about 90 minutes, rather than the 40-50 minutes her old machine took.

She also at first had considerable trouble getting the machine to open the door at the end of a wash. This - I think - was caused by her having the tumble-drier time set non-zero, so the machine would just go straight from the end of the wash cycle into drying. But she's old enough not to understand that she therefore needs to set the drier option off so that at the end of the wash it will allow the door to open; "But I want it to dry the clothes...". The thing is, that of course she wants to take some of the clothes out after the end of the wash and only put selections back in to tumble. She also wants to be able to open the machine and test by hand how much more tumbling is required. I've never actually been in her house when teh machine is in use so don't know if there's any other issue with it.

Looking at the manual online, it's not at all clear why some programmes take much longer than others.

I googled for customer reviews of the machine she got, and it was a favourite with many people.

I think you should at least consider reading the manual for any machine you contemplate buying and look for what it doesn't tell you directly eg how easy it is to interrupt a machine mid-cycle, and compare it with your expectations.

[Stephen]

Yes, I thought that might be the case. The thing is that I was wondering about getting the middle one and that's the one none of us are sure about!

How do you swap the bearings on that? Working from only behind the tub?

Thanks, Stephen.

[Stephen]

[Stephen]

Sorry about the blank post.

It was the uk white goods web site that is sometiems recommended here. That said, whenever I have "cross posted" a question to uk.diy and there, I find the uk.diy answers are more for having and go and repairing, whereas the ukwg forums are too quick (imho) to say give up and buy a new one or reluctant to give advice for legal reasons (gas, electricity, etc)

Thanks, Stephen.

[Stephen]

I haven't taken it apart yet to see what has happened.

I agree. I always thought the more water out the better. Their argument seems to be that fast spins are noisy (our 1600rpm one certainly was) and puts more wear and tear on the machine.

I have heard the cupboard idea on this group before. Sounds good but I've never got around to it.

According to the same web site, the weight is calculated full to the top of the drum with clothes neatly folded to get the best load possible. They agree that this is done for marketing and impossible in use and that filling to the top would stop the clothes from spinning and falling properly Durant the wash.

Bosch seem to do an 8kg model and a 9 kg model. I wonder whether the

9kg bit is just to compete with the Jones and whether I could save some money by buying the less fashionable 8kg model.

I will take the advice of this group and go for the faster spin speed, though I think the 8kg ones only go to 1400 rather than 1600.

Thanks, Stephen.

[Bob Eager]

Undo the big nut on the back of the shaft, withdraw drum from front (having removed front panel). Drift out bearings from inside the drum.

[AC]

We had a cheapo Candy washing machine which was used at least twice a day, 7 days a week, and lasted for well over 10 years. A few cosmetic bits fell off or broke, but the thing kept washing perfectly. In fact, we only changed it because it looked so tired, and we thought it best to get a new one before it died and left us in shit. Its still in our shed as a back up. The only down side for us was capacity, and the new one is twice(ish) as big, and there for only used once a day.

[Tim Watts]

On Sunday 25 August 2013 09:36 Stephen wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Logixx are the good ones. Everything else is crappier.

I would go with a low end Miele or a Bosch Logixx if economics musts.

I use very few programmes on my Miele but features I consider essential:

Open door at almost any time (locked out near the end and for 95C washes)

Control panel auto lock after a few mins of programme start - great if kids fiddle.

High spin >=1200RPM

Short wash option

Extra rinse water option (I leave this set).

Mieles are very quiet on account of having bloody heavy cast iron ballast weights.

[spuorgelgoog]

Miele start at £699 (on offer until Tuesday)

honeycomb drum, 7kg capacity

Owain

[Bob Eager]

I got our Bosch Logixx a couple of years ago. I paid, net, just about £400. With a four year parts and labour warranty.