New easy to install DIY solar panels technology

[Sunny]

Thought my website:

may come in handy for you DIY solar enthusiasts.

Simply put, 'direct' solar tubes are the most efficient solar technology available. This is based on a 2001 study of all solar technologies by the Department of Trade and Industry. (Now Dept of Business).

Since then solar tubes have evolved further, and now we are proud to showcase the latest in =91direct=92 heat solar tubes, which have improved solar efficiency even further, using only the highest quality components available in the solar industry. This gives the advantage of better performance and peace of mind but with no heat exchange required, this can free up your twin coil (when applicable) for other applications such as under floor heating/bio mass stoves etc.

1. If you have a traditional =91gravity feed=92 system, with a southerly facing roof space, then you home is ideal.
2. If you have a =91vented=92 thermal store with twin/solar coil, then your home is suitable too.
3. If you have a Combi Boiler, then you will need to replace this at the end of it=92s life for a condensing boiler with =91vented=92 tank.
4. If you have a =91high pressure=92 system with gauges, then you will need to replace this with a =91vented=92 tank.

Find more information at:

[woodglass]

Does anybody here really believe that it's cost effective to install solar panels in the uk ?

[Mary Fisher]

Financial cost isn't the only consideration.

[fred]

Thought my website:

may come in handy for you DIY solar enthusiasts.

Simply put, 'direct' solar tubes are the most efficient solar technology available. This is based on a 2001 study of all solar technologies by the Department of Trade and Industry. (Now Dept of Business).

Since then solar tubes have evolved further, and now we are proud to showcase the latest in ?direct? heat solar tubes, which have improved solar efficiency even further, using only the highest quality components available in the solar industry. This gives the advantage of better performance and peace of mind but with no heat exchange required, this can free up your twin coil (when applicable) for other applications such as under floor heating/bio mass stoves etc.

1. If you have a traditional ?gravity feed? system, with a southerly facing roof space, then you home is ideal.
2. If you have a ?vented? thermal store with twin/solar coil, then your home is suitable too.
3. If you have a Combi Boiler, then you will need to replace this at the end of it?s life for a condensing boiler with ?vented? tank.
4. If you have a ?high pressure? system with gauges, then you will need to replace this with a ?vented? tank.

Find more information at:

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:03:07 GMT someone who may be "woodglass" wrote this:-

Water heating panels? Yes in the right circumstances. The figures speak for themselves. However, in terms of simple payback period the financial investment will be a long term one. The idea that anything should have a simple payback period of five minutes (to exaggerate for effect) is not clever.

However, simple payback period is not the only reason for doing something. If it was few would have new kitchens installed, to take just one example.

[woodglass]

Exactly !!!

[Mary Fisher]

?

[Andy Burns]

Even the spammed site made that clear.

[Derek Geldard]

Run it past us again without the exaggeration.

IOW Dave doesn't do numbers.

Not the case. I changed mine when the hinges and fittings were starting to pull out of the chipboard carcasses and doors, the bottoms were pushing out of the drawers, and the runners had failed. Not to mention the finish was deteriorating and the sink unit was damaged by condensed water dripping off cold pipes and fittings.

I can't understand your point, if the kitchen is dropping to bits it has to be changed. Where does the "simple payback period" come into it ?

DG

[Rob]

For some* things it's impossible to drill down and produce figures to inform an accurate cost/benefit analysis. Solar energy is one example.

I know many people who've changed perfectly good (IMO) kitchens just for a new look.

Exaggerating for effect at all?

:-)

Rob

• I'd argue that it's impossible in any event

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not me, unless your time is costed at zero, and you make em out of scrap radiators and black paint..

Even the cost of copper to plumb them in these days..is pretty massive.

[The Natural Philosopher]

But its strange how money pretty much equates to energy emplyed to make/install, and materials employed to make/install

I cant think of anyione who thinks such things are beuatiful..

The only other reason would be psychological. A nice bit of conscience easing self deception.

I try not to go there tho.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On the contrary, solar energy is one thing is VERY easy to do a cost benefit excercise on.

A fitted kitchen is not really, since its hard to see what the alterntives are to having a kitchen, fitted or otherwise. Always eating out? say at £100 a day for tow of you? tat makes the £10,000 'fitted kitchen' pay for itself in about 3 years if it saves you ALL that, maybe

5 years if you still have to buy food. Harder to quantify, but still possible.

Ive not seen many people fit new solar panels for that reason. Rip them out and sell them for scrap, possibly..

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 11:22:58 +0000 someone who may be Rob wrote this:-

There is a difficulty with heating and ventilating of buildings, because it is difficult to adequately allow for the weather in making detailed calculations. There are crude things like degree-days to make a stab with, but they are crude. If one was to install weather recording devices at a property one could be rather more accurate. There is also the question of usage patterns. We know that sustainable energy installations make many think about their usage.

If someone installs a condensing boiler the usual suspects do not demand ever more detailed figures about it. Their double standards are mildly amusing, but the problem is that they may put off those who cannot see through their bluster. Anyway, no matter how detailed the figures are they are unlikely to be accepted, they would probably just ask for ever more figures, a well known tactic.

Some solar systems are fitted with more customer feedback than others, though this is generally more than some other energy systems I can think of. Some only measure the temperature of the cylinder, IIRC Solartwin provide a digital thermometer display as part of their kit for installers. This is a good indication in itself, though some are foolish enough to imply that those who quote such figures are either lying or too stupid to read the display. Other solar systems provide additional information, which may include the kWh the system has produced over various periods (this needs to be calibrated, but measuring kWh in hot water is a well known technique used in many places). third drawing/photograph shows a screen shot of one (actually taken from the ethernet software). The kWh figures from a calibrated real system make an interesting comparison to the assertions of the usual suspects.

So do I. I doubt if any of them thought of the simple payback period.

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:17:23 +0000 someone who may be The Natural Philosopher wrote this:-

Ah, so you think that there are never any rip-offs where excessive charges which have nothing to do with the cost of materials and labour are made.

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:15:22 +0000 someone who may be The Natural Philosopher wrote this:-

A 25m coil of 10mm copper tube is £33.21 according to Screwfix

I have spent more on a round of drinks in an Edinburgh pub.

It is unlikely that many solar installations will need as much as this, but let's be generous and say it is all used.

There will be some other copper components in the plumbing, but not many. A few reducers to convert to the probably 22mm of the header, pump valves, air vent, pressure relief valve, a couple of tees (air vent and filling/expansion vessel/ pressure relief valve connections). Let's be generous and say that takes the total to £60.00.

[Mary Fisher]

...

Thinking people wouldn't be put off by unthinking bluster.

It does.

Yes, but that says more about the accusers than the accused.

Mary

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well in the building tarde generally,not that much.

For so called 'green' products all bets are off. A with all fashion statements.

[The Natural Philosopher]

But people who are convinced they can think when they can't, are easy meat for any kind of bullshit.

[Rob]

Ah, OK!

The economic costs should be easy to calculate if you can get hold of the data.

How do you estimate the environmental and social costs of production (inc raw and manufactured materials), distribution, sale, marketing, installation, maintenance and disposal? That's relatively straightforward up to a point. It's the benefits I really have trouble with. Obviously, electricity/gas saving is a relatively trivial calculation. The benefits to human existence/experience and the 'planet' in the longer term would be tricky to calculate, I think. Also, it's not known whether costs are recouped on sale (a future and discounted benefit). Some sales bluster seems to suggest 'yes, and some', but no reviewed research has been carried out to my knowledge.

There is also the political aspect of costs and benefits, and the notion that nobody will know until these products have been through at least one life cycle.

Perhaps you can do/accommodate all of this. Is this your professional field? I have done some work on 'whole impact', but nothing like enough to come close to what you feel to be a trivial exercise.

A considerable variable to consider when choosing a new kitchen to replace a perfectly functional old kitchen is fashion related. This is calculated (for want of a far better word) as, variously, a form of rationality through to system legitimacy, in my book. There may be technical variables (drawer closers, durable hygenic surfaces perhaps?)), although in my sad little world a drawer is a drawer :-)

Obviously, if your kitchen does not function then your calculation may hold to the point of choice - what are the costs and benefits of a £1000 kitchen when compared to say a £10000 kitchen?

Rob