Making railings, any advise?

I am considering making some railings to go on top of a low section of wall beside the house. Have any of you done this? Any advise or words of warning?

I have found this website which sell all the finials etc at reasonable cost.

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I also know where I can buy pre drilled bar for the horizontal rails.

My plan is to lay the pre drilled bar on the wall and use it as a template for drilling the flags that form the capping. Then simply build the railings in situ, having welded finials onto the upright first of all in the workshop. The height need only be about 500mm so I am unsure whether to have just one horizontal or two. The ends can be secured to existing higher wall one end and a stone pillar the other. I need to take care though as the walls and pillar are quite old.

Any advise appreciated.

Mike

Reply to
MuddyMike
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Brindley are a good start.

Wire-feed (MAGS / MIG) is easier than stick, as cleaning up stick slag gets tedious with this many welds. However you can use stick quite happily on something of this scale.

Practice your welding on some spares, until you're impeccable, before you hit the finished piece.

Panels are best welded on a flat surface, then placed into position. If you weld the panels up completely in situ, then have some formwork in place behind to keep it flat.

Make a simple jig for holding finials on straight before welding. A simple V-block / roller jig is also useful for welding finials on with a neat welded ring, working downhand all the way round the weld (i.e. rotate the spike by hand, don't move the torch).

Forged finials weld more easily if they're heated beforehand. This depends on their quality and metallurgy. Brindley's are good and don't really need this. Recycling old cast iron ones can be a right pain - you might even use a nickel rod.

Tack weld first, then do the main welds. This helps to control warping. It's also useful to work slowly, allowing things to cool down between welds. You shouldn't make two welds in succession unless it's either well clamped into place, or you allow cooling time.

If you make from solid, it's heavier than you expect. You may need to make it as multiple pieces, just for handling into place.

Flanged ends with bolts look ugly. It's better to drill the masonry oversize, then set the railings into this traditionally, using molten lead (or even sulphur!). You need a temporary formwork to hold it vertical before pouring. You should also make a lead funnel from tinplate so that it fits just in place. Wire it to the railing before pouring.

If you're using steel rather than wrought iron, you have a risk of long-term rusting, especially where upright rods go through rails. Make sure that the gap between is either sealed by welding, or receives a good zinc based rustproofing.

Paint priming is important. It's impractical to hot-dip galvanise unless you make the panels in the workshop, but you can use a good high zinc-content primer like Davids 182 (or similar, buy the heaviest).

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Thanks for the tips Andy. As it happens the welding is the easy part for me, I was trained to MIG (and TIG) weld by Crane Fruehauf many years ago and have my own MIG plant together with a cylinder of Cougar. It will need to be a nice calm day when I weld the final pieces together so as not to have the gas shield blown away.

I Had already thought of creating a jig for welding the finials as I don't want any wonky ones, but molten lead for the fixings, I had not thought of that. Any advise on melting and handling it would be appreciated.

I am pleased hear that Brindley have a good reputation.

Mike

Reply to
MuddyMike

Sounds like a good wiki article Andy, mind if we put it there?

NT

Reply to
Tabby

In message , MuddyMike writes

Alternatively buy some ready made but adaptable from me:-)

Somewhere in my stored *possibles* is a pallet of second hand sheep penning from the dispersal sale of Hertford cattle market. They were gas axed off at ground level and from memory are around 8' long x 3' high with 5 or so horizontal 3/4" round bar rails. Can do a photo if any interest. Price, something over scrap value.

regards

Reply to
Tim Lamb

Don't get it wrong. Getting the damned stuff out of the holes again is a complete sod of a job. One of the first jobs I ever had, that. Getting the lead out of the coping stones round the moat at the Tower of London.

Still got one of the scars!

Reply to
Skipweasel

Thanks for the offer Tim but what you describe sounds to be the wrong way round. I plan on having vertical bars about 100mm apart. Or have I got your description wrong?

Mike

Reply to
MuddyMike

MuddyMike submitted this idea :

I would be inclined to suggest drilling (at least some) quite deep down into the wall and using long steel rods on the base of the railings - going deep down into the holes, resin fixed to maintain the stability of walls, railings, wall and pillar.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

In message , MuddyMike writes

No. Horizontal bars. They are not equally spaced either. Narrower gaps at the bottom for lambs.

I have been using them as a source of suitable steel for anti-burglar window bars.

regards

Reply to
Tim Lamb

Dang, just what I want - but over 1200 miles from here. I suspect it will be cheaper to visit the local scrappie. Oh well.

Reply to
Steve Firth

I also bought some of the cattle penning. The scrappie engaged to cut them off at floor level discovered that re-bar and concrete had been poured down the uprights to overcome rust issues. He was not best pleased.

Mostly gone to China now.

regards

Reply to
Tim Lamb

out of interest how did he end up doing it?

Jim K

Reply to
Jim K

As Skipweasel says, you want them right first time because they're a swine to remove.

The holes are oversize and dovetailed, so that there's enough space for the lead to flow down, rather than sticking as soon as it hits the cold steel. Look at a Victorian park for ideas on size - I might check Spon or Molesworth and see if there's a recommended size.

The lead is melted in a small steel pan over a gas flame. A seamless steel pan is by far the best - old kitchen pan, paint kettle, tube with welded base. Using an old paint can with a soldered or swaged base can fall apart with the heat. It also needs a good handle and a pouring spout.

My gas flame is a propane boiling ring (ex BT?), but you can use the larger gas burner torches for roofing too. Don't overheat the lead, as the hazard from the metal fumes is low, the hazard from lead oxide quite a bit higher. Either way, a mask is a good idea.

Pouring it is awkward, so pre-make a custom funnel for the job. Bit of folded tinplate, but accurate enough to fit the hole neatly and give a pouring tundish you can hit with a heavy pan. A couple of holes near the top allow it to be wired into place before the pour. If you're making a habit of this, you'd probably have a funnel per hole.

Setup accuracy is crucial, so formwork the railings into place with timber before pouring. You probably want some standard height shims beneath the railing, resting on the stone (this is important, as any variation here looks obvious). To stop it tipping sideways, use a couple of long 2x4s to make an A frame (or two) over the top and tie the railing to these. It needs to be firm enough to not move when hit with a heavy pan of lead. Don't just have the apprentice stand there holding it, or it _will_ end up tilted.

I've notched or fullered the submerged end of the ironwork (angle grinder) to give a key on the lead, but I've never with fluxed, tinned or whitewashed it to make it stick / not stick. I have heated the end whilst in situ and just before the pour to avoid chillling the lead too much.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

As it happens, the ones of the parapet of the Tower of London's moat weren't dovetailed, just a round hole drilled in.

Reply to
Skipweasel

Drilled stone (with a manual jumper) tends to be somewhat self- dovetailing anyway - or if you're careless, bell-mouthed (which would be bad). Unless you core-drill, I wouldn't expect a cylinder.

One thing to watch is the lead alloy. Don't use your stash of linotype or bullet casting lead. Some of the harder leads will shrink slightly after setting (look up Cerrosafe) which gives a nice clean impression from a steel mould, but that's not what you want here. Nor does it need your finest grade of still-pure roofing lead. Just old wheel weights, rubbish pipe, roofing scrap, stained glass, even a bit of solder is fine.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Gas axe and a lot of unrepeatable language.

They weigh in very well for scrap:-)

regards

Reply to
Tim Lamb

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