Making outdoor steps

[Matty F]

I want to make some steps to get up the 45 degree sloped bank at the back of my house. At the moment I use an aluminium extension ladder which is far too short and slides sideways, or I climb up holding to a piece of old rope, which makes it difficult to carry anything like a chainsaw up there.

I propose making a set of steps 8.1 metres long, with 24 steps with risers at 239 mm high, with a handrail. They will be timber treated to be suitable in the ground.

I have a feeling that it might break some regulation or other to have

24 steps in one run at a 45 degree angle. It also seems to break all the rules about steps, i.e. risers too high and angle too steep.

I suppose I could put the steps at an angle to the slope and have the handrail on the the outward side. I could also call it a track, in which case maybe the rules don't apply. I could have two landings on the way up. But that makes it more complicated. Basically I am just building a very heavy ladder.

I don't really want to build the thing and find that it looks daunting to walk down. I also want to go and buy the timber in about 9 hour's time!

[george [dicegeorge]]

is this totally outdoors in the garden, unattached to the building?

[Another John]

That's some steps alrighty (some bank as well).

Will you be doing a handrail? That would take the wobblies out of coming down again, and would assist in going up with heavy tools.

And will you be stapling heavy chicken wire to the steps to prevent sliding about in the wet?

(We want photies, by the way! Before and after!)

John

[Matty F]

Yes it is totally outdoors.

[Matty F]

Yes I will have a handrail. I propose having 75x50 posts in the gound and nailed on to the stringers, 1350 mm apart, to hold a 50x50 mm handrail. All the timber will be treated suitable to be in the ground. I wouldn't usually use that for a handrail but it's cheap, and I can plane it smooth. Splinters could bevery nasty.

It's rough sawn timber. Nobody will go on it in the wet.

OK!

[TMC]

why not cut steps into the bank like they do on hill walks cliff paths etc? face with bits of 7x2 held inplace with 20mm rebar

[Matty F]

The bank is too steep for that. It's a 45 degree slope, and it's too weak to hold pegs. I'll drive the posts in a bit just to stop sideways movement but the posts will be attached to the stringer on one side.

[Chris J Dixon]

With your skills and interests, I would have thought that something along these lines would suit:

[Tabby]

I'd be tempted to do it in concrete, then it'll actually last. Treated softwood on wet ground, not great. For crete all you'd need would be two planks, bung some light rebar down, then nail in a cross plank for each step - just do enough for a day's work, then take them off & reuse. Harder work, but with timber you'll only have to do the whole lot again.

It doesnt sound BR compliant, a long run with no landing. So you'll probably be taken away and never heard from again.

NT

[Tim Downie]

You could copy the design of space saver loft ladders to give you a greater tread depth to riser ratio.

[Matty F]

build, and they are over 9 metres long and the same slope. Maybe that's OK then.

[Matty F]

H4 treated pinus radiata timber in NZ is used in the ground and seems to last indefinitely. I think it's full of arsenic.

I could have a landing every eight steps. I may not finish it tomorrow in that case. And will I be able to carry large trees down the steps with all those landings?

The problem with this project is that I might enjoy the view from the cliff so much that I will go up there a lot and want steps not so steep.

[Nightjar]

I would be tempted to build a staircase instead. That would not need to follow the slope of the ground and it would be simple to put a landing in halfway up, if you wanted one.

Colin Bignell

[Matty F]

I've now measured the bank and the slope is 53 degrees, which is getting a bit steep for steps.I think I need a landing about every

2.7metres. I can't see how to hold the landings up. The bank is basically pieces of sandstone held by weeds. It's impossible to dig holes in it. Even steel pegs would fall out after a while.

[Nightjar]

That is why I thought of a staircase. Build a timber or concrete base at the foot of the slope and erect a timber framework on that. It would not need any fixing to the slope at all.

Colin Bignell

[Matty F]

I'm not sure what you mean by a staircase. I intend having two large stringers that go from bottom to top. The steps will be fixed with dado joints. Basically it's like a wooden ladder but much bigger. I'll have a handrail. I went for a walk today and inspected a flight of steps built by the Council. It has 20 steps in one flight and was very easy to walk up and down. Mine will be the same except will be steeper.

[Nightjar]

It is difficult to describe and I can't find any suitable illustratons online. My idea was to build a landing at half the height of the bank, using four vertical corner posts set firmly on (or into) the ground below the slope. There would then be a flight of stairs leading up to the landing from the ground and a second flight leading from the landing to the top of the slope. The stairs could then be built at an angle that was independent of the angle of the slope; Around 35 degrees is comfortable. Being set away from the slope, handrails on both sides would be advisable.

Colin Bignell

[Tabby]

Is the arsenic compound treated wood still available over here?

NT

[Matty F]

In the UK? I don't know. But I've found a supplier of very cheap ground-rated treated timber. It's not green, so it's probably arsenic treatment. It's about quarter the price of H3 (non-ground treated).

[Matty F]

That would certainly require engineering calculations and a building permit, which would be refused because the hill is unstable. Rocks fall down all the time. A neighbour has put wire mesh over his hill with some kind of plastic mesh and sprayed it with grass seeds which are growing well.