Wood glue, PVA, etc.

[Roger Mills]

A short while ago I was doing a bit of woodwork which needed gluing, and all my old glue had dried up so I bought a mini tube of Evo-Stik wood glue (about 50 ml?) from my local hardware shop for about £2.50

A little later, I needed to prepare a wall for tiling, so I bought 5 litres of No Nonsense PVA from Screwfix for about 8 quid.

It appears to be exactly the same stuff - as does Copydex and wallpaper overlap adhesive.

*Are* they all the same, or are there any subtle differences? If I can use PVA for all of these things, my 5L container will last me for the rest of this life, and well into the next!

[stuart noble]

There is a difference between pukka Evostick pva and No Nonsense. The former is noticeably more concentrated, and the latter probably bulked out with fillers/extenders of some kind. In practice it doesn't seem to matter much

[The Natural Philosopher]

I have found zero difference myself, except in dilution.

That is, wood glues need to be low dilution, paper glues more so and 'paint it on as a sealer' massively so.

I have certainly diluted PVA of a wood working sort for sealant purposes..

[Tabby]

The no-nonsense stuff claims to be 48% as well, so I dared. I usually stay well away from that brand.

NT

[John Rumm]

Years since I have used copydex - it used to be some organic fishy smelling stuff that was a bit rubbery when set. Has it changed?

There are differences, but for non critical applications I doubt it makes much difference. When woodworking the difference in speed and grab between say Titebond original and vanilla PVA is noticeable enough to make it worth paying for the named one IME. However if you need lots of "open" glue up time, or you don't mind waiting, the thinner watery versions will do.

[chris French]

No still the same. It's some sort of latex adhesive isn't it rather than PVA. My favourite glue smell I think. We have some around as it's useful for some crafty stuff, esp where you want some flexibility.

[Spamlet]

Yes, Copydex is latex plus, I think, ammonia. I comes into its own for sticking fabric and even joining carpets - with appropriate backing hessian. Only problem with trying to keep a handy supply is that, even kept in the fridge, it has generally set solid by the time one gets round to using it once it's been opened.

S >

[Tabby]

Opened it today, its going mouldy already....

NT

[Andy Dingley]

White glue is generally plain PVA. If it's yellowish, then it's an aliphatic resin and there is a difference.

I use a lot of wood glue, of about four sorts:

• Titebond II (I is obsolete, III is crap) The exemplar of the yellow glue. My general bench glue.

• Hot hide glue. For good furniture. I probably use the most of this, when I'm really working. You need a thermostatic glue pot, then it's easy.

• PVA. Yes, cheap builder's PVA in 5 litre plastic cans. I use this for cheap big jobs, laminating, making stage sets etc. I also use it diluted for biscuit jointing. It's worth getting a couple of Axminster's cheap squeezy glue bottles for using it. Otherwise the plastic bottles from hair dye.

• Epoxy. Posts passim.

[Andy Dingley]

No, it's always been a "rubber solution glue" (Thankyou Blue Peter). No connection to PVA, or wood glue. Good for fabric and essential for work with natural rubber or latex rubber foam.

Note that it's not the same as "rubber solution", i.e. latex rubber in bulk solution. I don't know what they've done to it, but it's far stickier than the plain latex.

Damned expensive these days though.

[Clive George]

I always remember it being utterly useless. But that was probably not on fabric, and it did clean off well.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Copydex is THE way to apply fabric to wood. PVA works but takes a long time to dry.

Used to work in guitar loudspeaker manufacturing place..leather cloth and ply...

[JTM]

I seem to recall a knowledgeable poster on this group re adhesives: ?? Johann ?? Does anyone have any of his advice archived? and would it be worth including in the Wiki?

John

[Bolted]

As far as I can penetrate the marketing bullshit, the much vaunted yellow "aliphatic resin" glues are PVAs with added aliphatic resin tackifiers (see eg Piccotac) to give a more instant grab, and with added yellow colourant as an aid to marketing. (So, e.g., you can get aliphatic resin modified PVAs from industrial sources in a choice of white or yellow). The basic glue is still a PVA, the aliphatic resins are "just" a modifier. Of course they modify the properties, but the marketing seems to rather overstate the distinction. I think the distinction between a cross-linking PVA and non-cross-linking PVA is a more fundamental difference than tackifier levels.

Having said all that, I'm not a chemist and may be talking from my hoop.

[stuart noble]

Probably John Schmitt