Info request

[Nick]

I have an extension lead (from a 13 amp plug) running out of a window from the house, over the lawn to the shed , to power a light / fridge in the garage and want to improve this (very unsatisfactory) arrangement. I am not "part P", don't really want to pay a fortune, and have the following queries.

Is this technically not actually illegal ? Could I run the outside bit in buried SWA, but still have it "plugged in" via a 13 amp plug in the house, so its unpluggable ? Can I leave as is ? What should I do to comply with all the current regs ( which I am unaware of at the moment) ?

Thanks,

Nick

[The Natural Philosopher]

Unless the BCO is calling or you intend to sell the house, who gives a damn?

If the socket is RCD protected and fused at 13A I would say you are entirely legal.

IF you can be bothered I'd spur of a buried armoured cable from an MCB appropriate to the gauge of buried cable, and stick a little RCD protected consumer unit in the shed..and make a single 13A ring* and 5A lighting circuit from that.

• or less if the main MCB for the shed is less and the cable underground is less.

[John White]

Well given that you are asking this question, could I politely suggest that you call in an electrician and get it done properly.

You cannot avoid the requirements of "Part P" by just plugging in the circuit or appliance.

John

[Phil L]

Interesting question and this was put to a BCO by me only a few weeks ago WRT a garage I built, his answer was that you can have armoured cable, T&E, sleeved or unsleeved or anything you want - as long as it's plugged in it remains an 'extension lead' - only once it's wired directly into the mains is it of any interest to BC or anyone else.

Obviously for your own safety you want it below ground, preferably armoured, but if you use T&E, put it into alkathene (blue plastic water main) it's unlikely to come to any harm, especially if you place bricks along any lengths that are likely to be dug into.

[dom]

Official document here:

situation is, I believe, legal. This is because no part of it is "fixed wiring". However it's undesirable because of its vulnerability to damage.

Generally anything that goes outside you house should be RCD protected (although that conflicts a bit with the possibility of the freezer tripping out).

Best solution is buried SWA (check the rules on how it should be buried) to a spare MCB in your consumer unit and RCD unit in the garage. This would require you to submit a building notice to your council's building control dept, if you wish to do the work yourself.

Nick wrote:

[Phil L]

This group is called uk.d-i-y, and the last time I checked it wasn't illegal to carry out wiring or rewiring, whether you are certified or not.

How do I comply with part P each time I want to mow the lawn then?

[Nick]

Thanks for all the replies

Nick

[John White]

And your point is?

Correct, but it can carry the death penalty if you don't do it properly. Given the OP's stated level of knowledge regarding the regs etc. then I politely suggested that he might consider using a professional electrician to do this.

If he wishes to d-i-y it then good luck to him.

You do not have to comply with part P to mow the lawn unless you plan to install a new fixed circuit each time you do so.

Let me explain my point with an example:

If you install a new central heating boiler then, in England and Wales, the associated electrical installation always comes under Part P of the Building regulations.

[See Building Regs Part P, page 9, section n]

Normally you would wire the boiler and its control circuits into a FCU. Putting a plug on the boiler and plugging it into a convenient socket does not change the fact that Part P applies.

[See Building Regs Part P, page 9, section h]

Individual BCOs may choose to interpret the regulations differently, but that's the local version.

John

[Guy King]

The message from "Phil L" contains these words:

It won't be long before some interfering nanny type passes a regulation insisting it be called "uk.you'd better get a little man in to do that for you".

[Phil L]

It's an extension lead, plugged into a (protected) socket, the fact that it stays there for a long time does not mean it's a fixed circuit.

I know, but it's a load of bollocks isn't it? - your governing body (neciec or similar) has 'done a corgi' and now fensa have done the same, they are all based on 'safety' but you know as well as everyone else in this group that it's got f*ck all to do with safety and everything to do with money...I'm not blaming you for trying to protect your interests, nor for going along with it and making a wad along the way, you'd be an idiot to turn it down, but please don't try to tell me that a boiler wired directly into the mains is any safer than one with it's own 13amp fuse and plugged into a socket.

[meow2222]

In reality you can. Buried swa + CU + fixed feed = part p applies, whereas plugin extension lead = part p doesnt apply.

So long as this is used by the householder in their own home, plugging in an extension lead, and far worse things, are all quite legal. There is no requirement for any rcd. A permanent installation would be a different matter.

Best practice is also a different thing again.

NT

[Christian McArdle]

The colours of underground services are an important safety indication and should be followed. Blue MDPE water pipe is not acceptable as a duct for LV electrical cabling. Quite frankly using anything other than SWA cable for this application would be silly.

Some of the colours, I'm sure there are more I've forgotten:

Blue = Water Yellow = Gas Red = High Tension Electric Black = Low Tension Electric Grey = Telecomms Green = Fibre Optic Orange = Railway Signalling Purple = Motorway Signalling + Power

Christian.

[<me9]

Grey is BT

Green is other telecom providers.

Both fibre and copper are in both. I suspect BT aren't following the standard of green for telecoms.

[Christian McArdle]

Ah. Confusion on my part. Probably because (legacy) BT normally uses copper and others (more recently installed) normally use fibre!

Christian.

[manatbandq]

That we all need to start somewhere. telling someone to get an electrician in, to do something they may be perfectly capable of learning how to do appropriately, serves no purpose other than to keep the "jobs for the boys".

The poster wants to learn how to comply with regulations he is currently unfamiliar with. At the very least suggest some good reading materials.

MBQ

[Nick]

Thank you MBQ ! - I am an electronics engineer and very familiar with things electrical - and as you quite rightly say, just unfamiliar with prat P and the regs this week - I am totally capable of putting together a safe system, have calculated voltage drops for the max current required and the length involved, but admit to not knowing what the regs are this week and whether the council inspect every installation and wiring modification weekly, monthly, annually or never.... and I have NO intention of feathering some "electricians" purse who may well have spent much time learning the regs, but as a capable person the job will be done by myself, if at all, after receiving guidance from those that are willing and able to provide constructive comments and answers to my questions.

Just because this is a "D-I-Y" group, it does not mean we are ALL stupid, ignorant and beneath (some of) those that have possibly got a few questionable letters after their name (virtuous as that may be) - we just have skills in other areas... If I don't know, I ask, then decide if the job is for me.

Thanks again,

Nick

[PeTe33]

A 3 amp fuse might be a more sensible option.

:¬)

[John White]

[About Part P]

While I basically agree with what you say, especially about Part P, safety and money, I would just like to correct one or two misunderstandings...

I don't belong to NICEIC or any other trade body for that matter. In fact you'll find that most sole traders don't - despite what these bodies like to suggest.

Usually it is the "firm" that is registered and not necessarily the individual carrying out the work. Most registered firms are good, conscientious businesses, but you do get ones where the certificates get signed by somebody that has never seen the installation.

I'm also not registered to self-certify for Part P - hence my knowledge of how the local BCO's implement it. Most of my work is outside the scope of "Part P" and there's usually a BCO involved already when it does apply.

Frankly I have better things to do with my money (or "wad" if you prefer) than to pay the annual fees involved. I would also have to pass on the costs to my customers.

BTW I don't have any problem with people carrying out d-i-y electrics. In fact most d-i-y enthusiasts will make a much better job of it than some so-called professionals. Don't forget there's money in sorting out the odd d-i-y disaster as well. :-)

Well there we must agree to differ. :-)

John

[Nick]

I would be interested to hear your explanation....

Nick

[John White]

It's probably a bit esoteric but my concerns are about what else gets plugged into the socket.

I was asked to PIR a large Edwardian villa that had been converted into eight flats. In each case the flat's combi boiler had been located in a bathroom cupboard.

This should not have been a problem as all the controls had been positioned elsewhere. Unfortunately the installer had used a plug and socket to connect the boiler rather than a FCU, with the result that the tenants had used the "handy" socket to plug in other appliances.

To add to the fun the boiler was on its own 16A MCB which was (correctly) fed from the non-RCD section of the consumer unit.

This does not just affect boilers by the way, I have seen immersion heaters where a plug and socket arrangement was abused in the same way.

When I was an apprentice some thirty-mumble years ago we were taught that a fixed appliance should always be hard-wired and never plugged in.

Perhaps I'm getting old. :-)

John