How can I find actual gas prices - rather than "savings"? DIY comparison wanted!

[Chris]

How can I find actual gas prices - rather than "savings"?

I would like to see the actual tariffs for a few companies and do my own comparison.

How can that be done?

[fred]

In article , Chris writes

Most companies will make you jump through hoops to find this out.

I found the easiest way was to go to a comparison site (my favourite is

) & perform a comparison. They give a full list of the suppliers against costs & savings but also have a more info tab which shows the underlying tariff. I narrowed my choice using the search & made my final choice after looking at the underlying tariffs for the top 4.

[chris French]

In message , Chris writes

Via the companies websites/literature/phone line is the obvious way. Most of them now have varying prices around the country so it isn't just a case of one simple tariff.

Some sites seem to make it difficult to actually find the price info, but if that is the case then they don't have a chance of my business,

The Energywatch site is useful.

You can use the this page to find out which companies supply in your area.

And then get contact details from this page:

Though I think most (at least some) of the price comparison sites will give you the tariff they use as well somewhere, this is probably easier

- and they are at least useful for filtering the list of suppliers down to a few possible.

[Set Square]

Most of the comparison websites list the annual price for each supplier, based on your consumption - but have a "details" icon against each, which gives actual tariffs when clicked.

Make sure that you input your actual consumption in kWHr - rather than the monetary value of your current bills. [It will try to work out your consumption from a year's worth of bills but, if there has been a price increase during that period, it will probably get it wrong! It will also probably get it wrong if you currently get an "early payment" discount.]

Once you have got the tariffs, you can do your own comparison in a spreadsheet. You need to cater for tariffs with and without standing charges - in the latter case, the price per unit for the first so many units is higher than that for the residue.

You may also need to consider the method of payment. To get the best prices you invariably have to pay by monthly direct debit (often in conjunction with an on-line account where you submit your own meter readings). If you currently pay your bills quarterly in arrear, you may find that in your first year after switching, your cashflow actually *worsens* - even though you are paying lower prices, because by paying off your "arrears" debt to your old supplier and paying your new supplier in advance, you are actually paying for more than a year's worth of gas!

[Jethro]

[x-posted to uk.legal for possible comments on last question]

The companies deliberately obscure the tariff - to the extent that their sales people don't know.

I had a highly amusing hour with a sales droid who called round to give me the benefit of cheaper energy (nPower). He knew it was going wrong when I showed him into the *front* room, with the PC on.

"Right", says I , "just let me know your tarrif, and I'll drop it into this spreadsheet, and we'll see how it compares."

He couldn't. And worse still, phone calls to his supervisor showed *she* couldn't.

Go figure.

Interestingly enough we are with Powergen (by default, since they took over Amerada), and I notice their tarrifs aren't available either.

Luckily I have the letter they sent us when we were switched.

I wonder how may other manufacturers and suppliers could get away with hiding the menu ?

[usenet]

Peculiar really because their tariffs are stated fully and clearly on the bills. We are with nPower and the bills are like most others I have seen, they simply say:- XXXX units at Y pence per unit, total £ZZZ.ZZ

(plus standing charge, if any, and cheap rate charges by unit as above)

If your 'sales droid' bought his electricity from nPower (if not then why not?) he would have been able to read the prices from his bill easily enough.

[INRI]

| >

| > [x-posted to uk.legal for possible comments on last question] | >

| > >

| > > Via the companies websites/literature/phone line is the obvious way. | > > Most of them now have varying prices around the country so it isn't just | > > a case of one simple tariff. | > >

| > The companies deliberately obscure the tariff - to the extent that their | > sales people don't know. | >

| > I had a highly amusing hour with a sales droid who called round to give me | > the benefit of cheaper energy (nPower). He knew it was going wrong when I | > showed him into the *front* room, with the PC on. | >

| > "Right", says I , "just let me know your tarrif, and I'll drop it into this | > spreadsheet, and we'll see how it compares." | >

| > He couldn't. And worse still, phone calls to his supervisor showed *she* | > couldn't. | >

| > Go figure. | >

| Peculiar really because their tariffs are stated fully and clearly on | the bills. We are with nPower and the bills are like most others I | have seen, they simply say:- | XXXX units at Y pence per unit, total £ZZZ.ZZ | | (plus standing charge, if any, and cheap rate charges by unit as | above) | | If your 'sales droid' bought his electricity from nPower (if not then | why not?) he would have been able to read the prices from his bill | easily enough. | | --

The amusing thing was, that the meter was scaled in cubic feet and then was converted to cubic metres by the bill processing department, a fiddle factor (calorific conversion factor) was was multiplied by the unit volume (metre cubed) to give 40.5MJ/m3 calorific value on which you were charged.

So just looking at your meter reading could seriously mislead the consumer.

INRI

| Chris Green

[Set Square]

It is true that you have to do a calculation after reading the meter.

However, I regard this as one of the few sensible things done by the gas industry - when they changed the pricing of gas from cubic feet to kWHr. This enables you to see how much cheaper - per unit of energy - it is than electricity!

[Jethro]

That's a sore point with me .... I haven't received any nottification since we were switched about bills being available. They are, but you need to guess ..

(yes they do have my valid email address !)

[Marc Lee]

I did this exercise using

recently, hoping to start reaping the benefits now the weather is getting colder! I was able to enter my details, see the saving and then see details of the tariff. One reason why I understand it is difficult to get this info is that pricing is regional. I did hear it alleged that the original supplier in an area was never likely to be the cheapest.

HTH Marc

[Dave Liquorice]

This is what I found recently. I wouldn't have switched without knowing the actual price of the new supplier was going to charge per unit.

Also there are only two or perhaps three databases out there, but many "we'll switch you" operations. Once you've visited a few switching sites you'll start to notice that the actual information given falls into just a couple of groups.

On the suplliers I looked at if you use more than the required number of expensive "Tier 1" units each quarter you pay the same (within pence) no matter the standing charge or standing charge free tarrif you are on. You only save if you use less than the required Tier 1 units each quarter. This is normally around 200 to 250 units/qtr or If you currently pay your bills quarterly in arrear, you may find

Eh? Oh I see, you mean you have to pay off the old supplier for what you have used then start paying the new one. I though for a moment that you meant the new supplier collected the arrears and passed it to the old one...

I'll have to check when the new DD actually goes out, I've the letter telling me they took over on the 3rd but the DD goes out on the 1st. If they've taken it before supplying I'll be jumping up and down on them...

[Set Square]

When I changed to Scottish Power, the first DD payment was actually at the

*end* of the first month of supply. Even so, it skewed my cashflow in the fist year. Because I am now effectively paying one month in arrear instead of three, I'm having to pay for upwards of 14 month's worth of gas and electricity (I switched both fuels) in the first year. [FWIW, when I switched earlier this year, Scottish Power were offering a "capped" tariff - which guarranteed not to increase unit prices for 3 years. I opted for this even though it was a bit (3% I think) more expensive than the equivalent non-capped tariff. With the price increases recently announced by some gas suppliers, I think it was a good move!]

[Chris]

In that case I wonder if a few people would be kind enough to post what they actually pay for their gas? This thread might then become a useful resource.

[Dave Liquorice]

Good thats what I like to hear.

Ah they must have got the DD amount about right for you. They haven't for me it's well low at =A324/month. On an average of 22.8/units day(*) =

I think it should be over =A335...

(*) Young family and I'm the only one who appears to know how to switch lights off. The only other energy source is oil for CH/HW.

[Andy Hall]

I always make sure that the DD is at a level *below* that suggested by the supplier. They seem to like setting above so that at the end of the year there is a surplus on the account. Since they don't pay interest, I am not enthusiastic about lending them money - I would rather have a shortfall such that I owe them money.

Having done that, I negotiate that the shortfall is added to the following year's projection at the same usage rate, such that it is amortised over the whole of the following year. Some squeak about that and want the shortfall paid before a new year is started. I simply tell them that I am happy to do that and switch suppliers, so which would they prefer? It's never a problem then.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[Set Square]

The DD is about *now*. Their initial estimate was a lot higher - and I had to argue the toss!

[Set Square]

OK, but comparing apples with pears ain't always easy. Anyway, here's my info FWIW:

Scottish Power - Prices capped until the end of 2006

Gas: Standing Charge 56.34 p.a. Unit price 1.326p per kWh

Electricity: Standing Charge 63.24 p.a. Unit price 4.820p per kWh

These prices are subject to discounts totalling 26.25 p.a. for buying both fuels from them and for having an on-line account. [i.e. all communication ny email or webform/supply my own meter readings]

HTH!

[John Laird]

I seem to be paying marginally less (4.77p for leccy) - I'm also on the SP capped scheme. I am, however, continually irritated by the frequent arrival of meter readers, who still read just *one* meter at a time, despite me supplying my own readings, and at far greater frequency than the supposed "once per year" that they say is always necessary. Stupid wasted expense.

Other than that, have had no difficulties with Scottish Power at all.

[Set Square]

I got a lot of meter readers turning up in the early days - but it seems to have tailed off. I got the distinct impression that they are sent to new customers to make sure that there are no suspicious signs of meter by-passing etc.

Even though I signed up to switch both fuels at the same time, they sent me two lots of direct debit details - one for gas and one for electricity - and then wanted to charge me more per month than 1/12 of the estimated annual spend. It took a few emails to sort out - but got sorted before the first combined DD became due.

[John Laird]

I've been with them a couple of years now.

Actually that reminds me that my first online "bill" was calculated at around the GDP of a small country. Closer examination revealed that somehow initial readings of 0000 had sneaked in, although they did have records of the proper values. A couple of emails sorted that out in a timely fashion.