Govt banning lightbulbs.... wot about halogens?

[Brian Sharrock]

I've proved absolutely nothing,[ there was no requirement in the question posed]. Tony posed a very direct question ..."why do you think that electricity is something like 3x the price of gas per delivered kWh?"; my answer was that PRICE, which he asked about, has a non-linear relationship to COST and his premise is illogical/ PRICE is what the customer will pay, no more , no less!

The true answer to his direct question is that consumers won't pay more than

3x (approx), or why should the generator/distributors sell it for less than 3x (approx) If the PRICE of electricity climbed much more than 3x the PRICE of gas (per Kwh delivered); we'd all be investigating the PRICE of gas-fired ovens; gas-burning tumble driers and gas-fuelled 'gennies for the CFL's the Government will permit us to buy!

[Huge]

Really? That sucks ...

[Bob Mannix]

Well it's more complicated than stated. If the *distribution* or spread (+/-

2SD say) of lifetimes is narrow then it's fine as a measure (ie for 10,000 hours, they start failing at 9,500 hours and have all gone by 10,500 (aside from outliers and assuming a normal distribition) then most would regard a quoted lifetime of 10,000 hours as perfectly reasonable). Given modern manufacturing practices this is more likely to be the case nowadays.

FWIW, I would imagine the spread for filament bulbs to be wider as the filaments are fragile and they have to be transported so their lifetimes are likely to be less accurate.

[John Rumm]

It might be - can't tell without knowing the power factor. i.e. the maximum current may well be 140mA, but some of that is a result of the apparent power of the load (i.e. its VA rating) rather than its true power.

[tim.....]

But they only cost 20p. I can write of this amount should I get a dud. I object to being expected to write of 5.99 on a dud[1].

[1] Once again, it is the near impossible to get, E14 candle bulbs that cost this much.

tim

[Bob Mannix]

Well true, but I was merely making a point that the LD measure doesn't

*necessarily* suck!

[<me9]

That makes it 33.6va, the power factor must be low (which is likely for fluorescents),

[Andy Champ]

It's almost useless. We don't know if half fail at 9500, and the other half at 30000 - or if half of them fail at 10 hours, and the other half at 10010. Or something else entirely. We want the mean, not the median.

BTW "LD50" is normally used for pesticides and such - it is a measure of the Lethal Dose for 50%.

Andy

[Rod]

Noticed just such items during a recent visit to a hospital out patients dept. The individual consulting rooms had a panel in the ceiling that certainly looked like a flat panel radiator. No other heat source was apparent. No fans!

[Si]

is this the same LD=50 that's used with mascara'd rabbits and smoking beagles?

[The Natural Philosopher]

But it ISD NOT THE BULBS that are the problem. Its the energy USE.

TAX THE ENERGY (MORE) and let everyone make up their OWN minds.

[Andy Hall]

Mmm.. The diesel argument, really....

[Huge]

It actually has nothing to do with rabbits or beagles, but yes. It's the dose of something that kills 50% of a population - hence Lethal Dose 50%, or LD50 for short;

that article; "LD50 of Polonium 210: estimated at 10 ng/kg (inhaled) to 50 ng/kg (ingested) in humans makes this one of the most toxic substances known. One gram in theory could poison 100 million people of which 50 million would die."

Crumbs. No wonder that Russky looked so poorly...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Let's see, Each bulb save maybe 30W over a 10,000 hour life. If that.

Thats 300KWh, at best, which is at most about £30.

Probably 35% of that will be made up in a domestic situation by extra gas/oil burning.

So it's about £24 if you are lucky, More or less. Over ten years or so.

£2.40 a year. You probably sold the house by then anyway.

Turning your thermostat down one degree from say 189C to 18C and buying a pullover would save on average about 10% of your fuel bill ANNUALLY.

Probably at least £25/yr for most people.

In most peoples cases this far outweighs any bulb issues.

Working from home one day a fortnight would probably save another 5% of an annual mileage of say 8000, so 400 miles, about ten gallons of fuel or around £40. The lower congestion probably saves another 2% or so.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its happening. Eco catastrophe.

Indeed. MegaDeath is what we need, and Nature will ensure we get it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Do what my previous owners did, and take the light fittings as well.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Makes the room above pretty cosy tho.

Underfloor heating...;-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Me 2.

The qualifications for being an engineer - a ruthless dedication to the truth since nature doesn't understand lies, and what we do has to work with Nature, is in direct opposition to what a politician needs in order to survive and prosper.

Its an extension of the Peter principle. Ths that can, do. Those that can't, teach, Those that can't teach, preach. And those that can't preach get elected.

[Andy Champ]

Just for a moment i thought you meant

...

Andy

[Si]

Aaah well, if you drive south through the BT in the early evening 'rush' hour you should expect the worst of all possible experiences. :)