Furniture 'restoration'

[Theo Markettos]

I have various bits of furniture which are heavily stained... either unvarnished with water stains, where the varnish is peeling off, or where someone has put a newspaper on top and the print has transferred to the surface. I think they're all veneered (one bizarrely appears to be mahogany with different mahogany veneer on top, though I suspect the rest are ply). They're nothing to write home about - but I'd like to change them from 'decrepit' to 'inconspicuous'. There will still be broken bits, cigarette burns, etc that I can't completely fix, so they certainly won't be Antiques Roadshow material.

So I'm thinking of sanding off the varnish/stains and refinishing them. But what would be the best product to treat them with? Varnish or some kind of oil/polish? It would be nice if they were cup-ring-proof, but I'm not expecting any kind of amazing surface (again, it's just bad veneer underneath).

Is power sanding a sensible way to approach this? Bear in mind that I don't want to spend a long time doing it, so a relatively quick method would be good (after all, it'll be a waste of effort as the furniture isn't that great to start with). Would that likely get out water stains that have soaked in?

Reading the archives, it appears that varnish clogs sanders and people recommend scraping with a heat gun... but would that damage the veneer?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks Theo

[Cash]

Theo,

Before you get into the 'heavy' stuff, try using some turpentine or white spirits (or similar solvent) on a clean rag and rub this over the woodwork first.

Wipe over with a clean, dry rag, and then let dry for about 10 minutes or so - and you *MAY* be surprised at the difference it will make - it won't do anything about scratches and burns though.

As for the water staining, that may not even come out after a good sanding - depends on the depth it has penetrated.

While this is not a cure-all, it has certainly made a difference on some furniture I made over 40 years ago, and saved the stripping and re-polishing that I was going to do - and even SWMBO was pleased at the results (and a bloody miracle that was too). LOL

You could also try locating and having a natter with an old French polisher or furniture restorer - you may get a few tips that way.

Cash

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Cash" saying something like:

Avoid the adverts which say, "Lady with large chest seeks French Polisher".

[Me Here]

If you pop to your local hire shop and hire a decent belt sander and some varying grade papers, add to that some good quality varnish with good quality brushes by the end of a weekend you'll have something more acceptable after a little elbow grease.

[Jonathan]

You need to be very careful not to sand through the veneer. I would personally use a scraper.

Jonathan

[TheOldFellow]

I would NOT use a belt sander, they are far far too aggressive for veneer, even with the finest belt. They are not a tool for a beginner, IMO. You would get better results from a Random-Orbit sander and 240 or

320 grit. Take your time, watch carefully for the veneer being worn through, especially at the corners.

I would then use an acrylic varnish (water based) or if it's a high wear site (bedside tables are terribly open to cups of hot tea) a hard-glaze polyurethane. If it's in a wet area, or drinks get put on it (i.e. a bar top), you might find a formaldehyde resin is good, see Andy Dingley's post on varnishes in another thread.

There is also the problem of matching the newly sanded top to the uv- darkened carcase. You may need to use a stain before varnishing, and experiment on a bit of wood that isn't visible to get the right density/ colour.

R.

[Andy Dingley]

Michael Bennett's "Discovering and Restoring Antique Furniture"

By far the best furniture restoration book I've seen.

As to the rest of it, then SLOW DOWN! Most DIY workers do a lot of damage when "restoring" furniture. Many also work too hard at it, and do simply more work than an experienced restorer would bother with.

Second point, anything involving "varnish" is probably a Very Bad Idea.

It's too big a topic to even begin with a detailed answer.

[Theo Markettos]

Thanks. There's a copy of the 1990 edition in the library so I'll have a look.

Fair point. All I want to do is rescue some things from the scrapheap, so I'm not expecting too much.

Hence my reason for enquiring :)

Theo

[Theo Markettos]

I've had a go on one with some white spirit and kitchen roll, and it does appear to be taking off the varnish quite nicely. But it seems to be fairly thick, and I'm getting through a lot of kitchen roll and elbow grease for only small areas. Should I use something a bit more abrasive to scrape it up and work in the white spirit? Or something other than white spirit?

Thanks Theo

[Jonathan]

I think the white spirits is a mistake. I would let it dry and then scrape off the residue. with a good scraper, you will get a better finish than sanding.

Jonathan

[Andy Dingley]

If it's white spirit, then I'd expect it to be ineffectual, but not harmful.

You need to identify what type of "varnish" it is, then work accordingly. Hopefully it's shellac, which is by far the easiest to restore.

[stephen.hull]

If it is shellac then it will disolve in meths, not white spirit or turps.

Stephen.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Or at a pinch, vodka

[stuart noble]

Yes, meths also dissolves a lot of the cheaper spirit based varnishes popular in the 1920s. I've never known a varnish that is soluble in white spirit once it has cured. Maybe it's just the grime it's removing

[Theo Markettos]

Well, it's some kind of surface finish (not grime) and it comes off with both white spirit and meths. This is all postwar furniture... I'd guess

60s/70s/80s. I've tried white spirit on three pieces (all different, from different sources) and meths on one of those and they all seem to do something... but with kitchen roll is fairly hard work. I wondered about using something a bit more abrasive, like a non-stick scourer or wire wool?

What would be a good surface to replace it with on the expectation that it'll get hot cups of tea placed on it?

Theo

[Andy Dingley]

Shellac finishes won't dissolve in meths, at least not such that you can strip them easily.

New button shellac will dissolve in meths _if_ it's warm, _if_ it's powdered, and even then it can be a pain. Recent shellac finishes will soften in meths, but even then they'll hardly dissolve readily in it, such that they can be stripped. An old shellac finish will just laugh it off - particularly if it's alligatored.

The easiest stripper for shellac finishes is 5% ammonia instead. However this then has the problem that ammonia will darken brass, any timbers with tannins, and is a problem around iron in contact with wood too. However it does strip a shellac finish very nicely.

[stuart noble]

Get a bundle of coarse wire wool from a plumbers' merchant. Takes it off and absorbs it at the same time. Use it like it's going out of fashion to avoid re-spreading the gunk over the surface. There is a risk of a chemical reaction with the tannins in hardwood, so it might be better to use stainless steel wool as you get closer to bare wood.

Two choices really. Briwax P7 Original is quick and easy, and makes every piece of junk look a million dollars. It will show water marks but it's a five minute job to re-wax. Varnishes, like polyurethane, are less forgiving and tend to highlight all those little bits that you thought you'd stripped. Gunk that penetrates the grain in flat sawn oak isn't pretty, but that's more

1940s utility furniture

[stuart noble]

And the colour change in hardwoods is normally reversible with peroxide. The strength they sell in Boots is quite adequate IME. Actually I've never used it with ammonia, but it should work as it does with other alkalis.

[stephen.hull]

We used to use a coarse mutton cloth to remove old spirit varnish, it simply just wiped off.

Stephen.

[stephen.hull]

In my experience they did, at least the spirit type did anyway, don't know about the other oil type varnishes.

Stephen.