For those with Car ABS and ECU problems;!..

[tony sayer]

Might be of interest to those who do their own car DIY.

We run, as a second car, an elderly Volvo 850 estate and apart from being quite old (1996) she still runs fine and is quite adequate for what we need.

However the MOT test the other day threw up that the ABS light wasn't behaving quite as it ought and the TRACS system wasn't quite what it should be either, and a diagnostic test showed the ABS controller was reporting that the hydraulic pump was U/S apart from other misc faults.

Much shaking of heads at the small local garage and lots of whistling thru the teeth that its going to cost yer a small fortune as a new one at the Volvo dealer will be a lot more then what the cars ever worth, so off to the scrap heap for the 850 :-(.

Thats until a web search threw up,

returned for testing and as they expected found to be faulty with all the usual faults they have. Kept informed by several texts of the progress and unit very quickly returned with a bill for £145 plus VAT. Refitted unit, cured the problem completely and car now back in service and should be OK for sometime yet.

Seems this is the new way that older cars die off now with "electronic problems" this one still mechanically fine at 150K miles not bit a bit of rust anywhere, so good result all around.

No connection apart from being a very satisfied customer etc:)...

[dom]

What sort of faults? Other than dodgy connections, what faults can these presumably all-digital units develop? Or are there analogue/ power electronics in there that fail/drift out of spec?

[js.b1]

Is now a good time to tell you that many recent ECU are conformance coated or encapsulated so as to prevent "intellectual property theft"? Therein rendering a car a writeoff with a diagnostic & replacement ECU bill of 3500+?

[tony sayer]

In article , js.b1 scribeth thus

Well it seems that some ECU's are coded to the car but then again the firm I refer to seems to be coping very well with recent "electronic" units and there are others doing the same thing.

I don't think that there're at all interested in IPT just getting the hapless motorist back on the road at an affordable price;!..

[tony sayer]

In article , [e-mail] scribeth thus

Well if its like the PCB in our Suprima boiler its simple dry joint problems with the odd resistor being of a too low rating but then again an exchange one there has seen that working fine again:-)..

Just because its digital doesn't make it free from fault's all!..

[Bob Minchin]

Might you be confusing 'conformance coating' with conformal coating? The latter is a protection against some environmental effects such as humidity and as a secondary effect makes them a little more difficult to trace the circuitry and needs local stripping to repair.

Bob

[zulu]

Tony 1 System nil

:-)

[js.b1]

The coating, or in some cases potting, was non-removable. It was found on recent common rail turbo diesel, when challenged the argument was that it was to protect software intellectual property. It is true that every car maker strips & reverse engineers its competitors products right down to software. The car concerned was written off (the bill exceeded 5500), interestingly the insurers paid out.

The ability to repair car computers is very important - it is not unknown for spares to go unavailable. Citreon did this IIRC with ABS systems on the XM, and it may happen again where manufacturers move from independent computers to integrated computers to bus system. Not sure I would want a Saab with a view to very long term ownership for example, but repairable makes all the difference. As long as it is not potted, it is repairable if necessary scavaging parts from another ECU if they are unmarked or indecipherable.

The motor industry of course would love "sealed field replaceable units" and does do that with certain parts, eg, no ring gear separate from the flywheel - you have to buy the flywheel, not so bad when a lump of cast iron but costly when DMF. Always amusing to see =A3135 oxygen sensor, and some cars used to have as many as 6, when a generic could be had for =A3100 less. Still amazed at the ripoff of hall effect switch re ABS, crankshaft, distributor etc. Then again some charge =A3250-450 for software updates which I find quite outrageous. Who do they think they are... Microsoft :-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think the latter is likely to be the case.

I remember hiring a Ford once: halfway to where I was going te dashboard quit. I phoned up teh car hire, who told me to carry on. No speedo, no gauges, nada! I found an AA man parked by the road side and asked him ..."bad earth on it, hit it with the heel of your 'and'"

Voila!.

crap car.

Good advice.

[Graham.]

I phoned up teh car hire, who told me to carry on.

asked him ..."bad earth on it, hit it with the heel of

Absolutely. First rule of electronic repair, hit it. if that doesn't work, hit it again, harder.

When you are as experienced as me you will do this without prompting :)

[Andy Cap]

It's so important that I think there should be legislation that units are economically repairable and parts available, else subsequent ownership become an increasingly uneconomic prospect and we have to recycle earlier than should be the case. With so much concern over waste energy, allowing manufacturer to falsely inflate demand in this way is stupidly counter-productive. Likewise with boilers, that are unnecessarily complex and therefore short-lived in comparison with their predecessors. The fuel savings are lost in increased maintenance, manufacture and replacement costs.

Andy C

[js.b1]

That logic was lost on the scrappage scheme... ... or fluorescent light bulb mercury waste... ... or photovoltaic subsidy...

There is a 10yr rule re car parts in EU, however I believe there is a "get out".

[geoff]

In message , tony sayer writes

ECUs seem to be made to last, they have well built pcbs and are well conformally coated with plated through holes

The Suprima pcb, on the other hand ...

[dave]

quit. I phoned up teh car hire, who told me to carry on.

asked him ..."bad earth on it, hit it with the heel of

I have one of the last of the Rover cars that I bought just before they collapsed. It has a digital clock and traffic master built in. The clock has failed to display the full time for a while now and the traffic master display is going the same way.

I know what the problem is, but the garage tell me that to get the display out will cost me an arm and a leg. I plan to get a Pifco massager on it to remove/disturb the crud that is causing the problem.

Dave

[Ron Lowe]

In our electronics lab where we maintain *very* expensive electronic and electro/hydraulic equipment, whacking things with a rubber hammer is a standard fault-finding technique.

The vast majority of faults are not fancy electronic failures.

90% are mechanical, connector, chaffed wire, etc. Of the remaining 10% electronic problems, 90% of those are PSU-related. Only a very small percentage is actual gubbins-failure.

[tony sayer]

In article , geoff scribeth thus

Now don't bite the hand that feeds you;!...

[The Natural Philosopher]

There is a law. Not sure how it applies to electro9niucs BUT it has been European law for some time that manufacturers must make their drawings and specifications available for 3rd party manufacturers.

So that standard parts like bearings, tyres, shocks, springs clutches brake linings etc can be 3rd party sourced. Whether its worthwhile for e.g. ECU stuff is a moot point.

BUT there are really only 5 ECU manufacturers IIRC, the rest is all mappings to specific car/engine combinations. I.e. software.

With so much concern over waste

cant comment on boilers.

Sounds like a good case for after market open source replacement controllers :-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

yeah. The chips never go: the connectors always do.

My In laws had a rover ..and teh windows winders packed up - he left te window open and it gotr wet.

He got a replacement from a scrappy, but it wasn't quite the same.

I opened up the old unit, and washed it in acetone to get the crud out, then went to work with contact cleaner on all the corrosion, and eventually it worked again.

[geoff]

Not really

The problem lies with insurance

If a boiler goes up because of e.g. Explosive ignition, the manufacturers would jump on the 3rd party control

Fitting non standard parts to a boiler has the potential to invalidate the warranty. That's why I'm very careful to repair and not modify, even if there is an obvious improvement to be made

[Andy Champ]

I'm really not convinced that the risk from faulty boiler parts is higher than that from faulty car parts.

Andy