Fixing Brackets to ABS Car Bumper.... ?

[Steve Walker]

Hi -

Lots of long drives down country roads on dark nights, fed up of poor illumination. Fitted uprated bulbs, which helps, but really want to bolt on a couple of halogen driving lamps. Last time I did this, it involved drilling into the steel bumper of a Maestro. Eeeeh, things were easier in them days.... :o)

Entire front end of current car (Fiat) is a single painted ABS assembly with no evident steel mountings. I don't want to remove the whole thing, and I'm wary of explorative drilling (might hit a few other things first). So, can anyone suggest a way to mount a sturdy bracket directly to it?

I've thought of pop-riveting, but unless I can access the rear to slip a washer in I'd be worried about them pulling loose over time. Small nuts & bolts would be great if I can get behind (probably not). Also perhaps use small toggle-bolts, assuming there's enough space behind for the toggle to drop? A group of self-tapping screws, supported by double sided adhesive pads or glue?

Less practically, I've wondered about drilling a 10mm hole and then injecting some compound which will set into a machinable 'blob' behind the plastic panel (eg Plastic Padding Chemical Metal) and then _carefully_ drilling and tapping a 6mm hole into it for a mount. This would rely on the compound fulfilling the mechanical role of a nut, of course.

And then in my wildest dreams, I hope there's an adhesive solution - a 50x50 double-sided patch would hold it easily if it bonded well to the bodywork. But are there any magic products which can do this? I don't mind stripping the mount point back to plastic, if it's an ABS solution.

I have lots of ideas, but I'm lacking the knowledge or practical experience to know if they're viable. Advice and suggestions would be appreciated!

Many thanks!

[Ian Stirling]

Do you have a haynes, or equivalent manual for your car? Almost mandatory if you want to do DIY on it. Ebay often has them several pounds cheaper than list.

[Brian]

It might work out cheaper if you go to a scrap yard and buy the bumper for the same car, but the sporty model. They often have holes for spotlights and you might get one with them in already. Apart from that you're forced to drill holes unless you get one of the HID headlight conversions. If you have fitted uprated bulbs of the 110w type and changed all your wiring then two extra lights of say 55w will put a drain on the battery. Avoid the so-called "white" or "super bright HID look" bulbs that still only operate on 55w. It's advertising rubbish aimed at boy racers. In the real world they are worse than the ones fitted to a car as standard and they are not

50% or 80% brighter! As I am sure you have found! You could take the bumper off and fit a large metal plate behind it as an alternative, just for extra support for the lights. I would go for the big dinner plate ones. I used to have a pair made by CIBIE and they were excellent. That was in the days of proper bumpers and pump up suspension.

[Steve Walker]

Thanks Brian, but apart from the Stilo Abarth there's no OEM options. An Abarth front-end would cost a very lot of money, due to the boy-racer market.

That would be ideal - I like nuts & bolts, large metal plates etc. Might have a think about whether I could manoeuvre a plate into place with a magnet or string, and then drill & tap into it.

Yep - a pair (or even four) of those. I'm sick of peering hopelessly into the darkness, and I can't be arsed what it ends up looking like. In fact, I might be persuaded to add a rally-style pod.... :o)

[david lang]

Only solution I can think of is platerboard fixings - depends whats behind the bumper - would a stud/metal/volt detector help?

Dave

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If you can use driving lamps it means you're already using main beam. Are the actual headlights on the car in good condition? And do they run both dip and main beam at the same time? You can get [cough] very high wattage headlight bulbs for 'off road' use, and uprating the wiring (and fitting relays so you get maximum volts) to cope with these might be an easier option.

[Dorothy Bradbury]

Mounting the top of a front bumper is unlikely to work... o Area lacks space -- too streamlined

---- both re front profile, positioning re parking o Area has no bracing -- lights fitted to it will wobble on every bump

---- bumpers are not all ABS (there are other materials)

---- however all have the stiffness of a wet 3mm lettuce leaf o Aesthetics will be gone -- which may excite traffic police

You need to use the modern micro driving lights... o Micro sized -- most likely round or ellipsoidal for your use o High output -- reflectors give you an excellent beam pattern

Examples are Cateye and others - a lot of clones by now.

Mounting micro driving lights... o In the car grill beneath the numberplate

---- lights are typically 2"-high, 3" wide in ellipsoidal form o In the grill reserved for fog lights if available

---- knock-out fake grill with space behind for factory fogs

The bumper in both places will actually be quite stiff. In the car grill area it will be ideally stiff re typical intake designs. Holes here will not propogate through flexing - if ABS it has a real irritating characteristic of propogating cracks on being flexed. To cut 5mm alloy sheet you just score it gently & snap it, take note.

Aligning the lights... o Dip considerably - light intensity to drivers is HIGH o Set up with full beam - so they do not to be dipped so much

The proper kits come with a relay, fuse, wiring harness etc.

Current draw... o If you have upgraded your main lights (or main beam)

---- de-upgrade them to protect the alternator (it will audibly groan)

---- de-upgrade them re basic legality (IIRC 100W is Off-Road-Only)

---- de-upgrade them because their beam pattern will be crap anyway o Proper Cateye & similar micro driving lights have excellent pattern

---- pattern is a function of both the reflector design & bulb type (H1 etc)

---- modern micro driving lights have exceptional "long throw"

Do NOT buy the micro-lights with blue Dichroic lenses... o Dichroic coating is to enhance performance

---- unfortunately it will reflect sunlight & appear blue in the day

---- blue by appearance is illegal - it does not have to be lit o Go for the ones which appear white when off - uncoated

---- any website selling them will probably indicate this

Micro-light benefit: o Most grills have at least 2" of height, more typically 4"

---- so even the smallest ellipsoidal unit will fit comfortably o Lights are not noticeable when off, not hit when parking

---- nor will vandals have stuck up lights to knock off o They are compact & light so the moment from fixing point is low

---- they are least likely to waggle around with every pebble you hit

Incidentally the lights you upgraded... o Realise some cars do not use relays for their lights

---- they switch through the dashboard switch or steering wheel stalk

---- those items can cost a fair bit and be of limited current rating o Realise some cars do not hugely oversize wiring size

---- so going from 55W H1 to 100W H1 Off-Road may be risky

---- overheated cabling has a habit of upsetting other cabling nearby

One note is to use locking nuts on fixing... o Re vibration o Re theft if using one of the non-clone Cateye style lights

If OEMs mount on top, they often add or have a bracket there. Look up at the rear of the bumper from under the radiator. The bumper itself often has zero practical bracing, any of which will get less with pedestrian compliance requirements as we go fwd.

[Dorothy Bradbury]

Kind of micro lights I was referring to... o

can mount into a car intake grill - you can also see the blue tinting due to coating which will attract UK traffic police.

Mounting on top of an ABS bumper is not likely to work well, although an OEM option may have a bracket there or tell you how.

[nightjar]

I seriously suggest a visit to an ophthalmic optician (not a high street glasses shop) for a comprehensive eye test. It may be that your night vision is worse than average if you have problems seeing far enough ahead to drive at normal speeds. The rally set-up (we used to use two Cibie Oscar spots down the centre, beams very slightly spread, and two Cibie Oscar fogs set to cross, so that they light up the hedges, plus 4 headlights with 150W halogen bulbs) should really only be necessary if you are batting down unlit roads at ridiculously high speeds.

Colin Bignell

[sPoNiX]

You used to be able to buy self adhesive brackets for Ring brand driving lights.

sponix

[Dave Liquorice]

True HID (High Intensity Discharge) is not likely to be available or if it is it will be fupping expensive. AFAIK HID lights are covered by the Construction and Use regulations and require self leveling headlights so they don't dazzle incoming traffic. Fitting HID is

*much* more than a simple bulb swap, you need the control gear for a start.

But not much more than the heated rear screen...

I'd agree that the ones with blue paint on are just marketing puff. However xenon ones, without blue paint, do have more light output per watt input. Just be aware that there is a lot of marketing bullshit around these bulbs.

[Rob Morley]

I'd be more inclined to find something solid under the front to attach to, then bring a couple of bars/tubes up in front of the plastic to support a horizontal bar/tube to which the lights can be attached.

[Steve Walker]

Thanks for fabulous advice DB - knew you were a cooling guru, but you evidently have other talents.... :o)

[Steve Walker]

Ooooh, that would be ideal - of to ring the spares shop right now!

[Dorothy Bradbury]

Vets needed lights for road & illuminating cows :-)

o PIAA etc micro-projector lights can run 120-200ukp a pair

---- clones exist at far less - but verify relay/loom included o It may be worth checking headlight alignment

---- MOT should, but it's not difficult to get them out of spec o It may be worth checking eyesight first

---- night vision can be affected o Polarising glasses can help many people incidentally

---- plain misty roads & no road markings are poor visibility

There is a huge amount of nonsense about lighting... o Tarted up bulbs -- do very little, some do worse o True Xeon systems -- several hundred with Ballast etc o True high-end HID systems -- even higher with self-levelling

Lighting is a function of Reflector + Lens + Bulb. o Micro projector from the likes of PIAA will work well o Clones will work re fitment, beam will be inferior

Do not leave upgraded lights connected... o Relay switched -- wiring may not be up to it or the relay

---- which can take out all your lights or damage wiring o Stalk switched -- can burn out if handling the whole current

---- this can leave to a bill in the hundreds if replaced as a set

Cars do not generally have surplus copper :-) Indeed some underweight the copper re higher insulating rating :-(

HID other than OEM is a waste of money really, and HID even as OEM is not particularly good value for money. The PIAA and similar lights can have a better beam pattern which is what counts. If the option is HID or Stability-Control, always go for the latter.

[sPoNiX]

If memory serves me correct the lamps were called "Ring Road Runner" and the self adhesive brackets were an optional extra.

sponix