Just hoping someone can advise me on a safety issue from the point of view of experience, not legislation.
I'm hiring a Makita 8406 drill and 4" or 5" coring bit (for an extractor), which I'll be using at 1st floor height, into standard brick and mortar. I haven't used one of these drills before, so I don't know how powerful the torque / wrenching action might be if the bit gets stuck.
So the question boils down to: Can I use a regular ladder, or is scaffold necessary?
I did exactly the same thing in order to insert a 100mm fan duct through a wall. I'm in my late 60s, not very strong or steady, I hired a 4x 4ft tower scaffold for the weekend, only cost me £20 if I remember rightly. I knew I'd done the right thing within 15 mins of using the core drill. I didn't find it easy and needed frequent rests. Good luck Tom
The drill in question has a torque limiter (aka safety clutch) so should not put you at undue risk. Obviously you are better off drilling your core from the inside if you can, but IMHO you will be OK on a ladder if you must do it from outside.
Make sure the ladder is set somewhat higher than the place you are drilling so that you are not too close to the wall and forced to work in an uncomfortable position or while leaning back. You can then work with your arms round both sides of the ladder while laying face against it.
Hum, I do a few things at the top of ladders, but I wouldn't try this. If the task at hand requires the power of an SDS drill (as opposed to just the hammer action), I would say it's not a job suitable for a ladder. If you do, I would suggest strapping the ladder securely in place and using a ladder standoff at the top.
I have done a 4" core with a SDS from a ladder. I did use a standoff as you suggested. I did not find it particularly difficult in the sense of the forces involved, on the occations the core snagged, the clutch on the drill meant there was no kickback to contain. It is worth pointing out however that it does take a certain amount of stamina, and taking rests every so often is a good idea. It probably took 15 to 20 mins for a hole through our (very hard) solid brick walls + render.
You also need to make sure that you are stable on the ladder and not reaching out since you will need both hands for the drill. (decent ladder helps as well!)
I recentlt did this with a 6" core and was, like you, somewhat nervous of the potential kickback. However, the first time the clutch slipped was quite a relief as it was considerably lower than the threshold I was expecting thus the kickback was minimal.
My core bit was diamond tipped so it really did go like the proverbial hot knife through butter, which may have helped in that it may not have jammed as much as it otherwise could. Furthermore, the drill speed was relatively slow so the drilling action was nowhere near as severe as I had expected.
I'd be inclined to use a ladder pitched high and reaching through the rungs, so no leaning back or sideways. And tether the drill so it's not a disaster if you let go.
When I needed to do this for an extractor, I drilled through from the inside out. It was messier, but I had a good solid floor to stand on and no fall risk. The external shutter covered the slight spalling that occurred when I broke through.
Can you not put a long pilot all the way through the wall, then just do maybe 1/2" on the outside to ensure a clean break-though, and drill the majority safely from the inside ?
Thank you all very much for your advice - I'm feeling a lot more confident knowing there's a torque limiter and that it's adequate. FWIW, I'm 31 and fairly fit so am hopeful there won't be a problem. I'll report back if I end up in a hospital bed :)
Andrew, I don't think I can really drill from the inside - because of the way the bathroom (which is the room above the hole-to-be) is laid out. Thanks for the idea though.
Now I've just got to make sure I stay above the concrete lintel below!
What type of core bit is it? My guess is that it's a diamond core if it's being supplied with that particular drill, so won't need hammer mode (every time I've hired a standard core it's come with a brute of a Hilti SDS-Max type of thing and after nearly being thrown off a step ladder inside with one of those there is no way I would even contemplate using one up a ladder!!).
If this is the case then you should get a relatively tidy hole when it breaks out the other side, so I'd say use it from inside if at all possible. It might not have a sufficiently long lead to reach up to the first floor anyway, and if it's being hired then it most likely will be 110V & you can't percha site transformer half-way up a ladder.
I'm not a ladderwork fan, but I'd really recommend a stand-off like this:
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bought one, and am amazed at how much more stable the ladder is; plus you have the benefit of a 10kg-rated platform in front of you, and it puts you just the right distance away from the wall.
I haven't used one of these but they look like a good idea. I assume they hook onto the top rung but what keeps them horizontal whilst the ladder goes up?
I did this job with a hired Bosch SDS drill and a diamond bit.
I was drilling from the inside and because I wanted the hole up high I had to hold the drill up level with my head the whole time. Due to this awkward position I could only maintain short burst of activity before resting. The whole job (1930's solid 9" brick wall) took hours. And by hours I mean I started on Saturday when I picked the drill up and finished on Sunday morning at about 10am.
I have no idea whether this is normal or whether I was given the wrong sort of drill for the job described. And every time it got stuck I got a nasty jolt in the wrists.
After this expereince, I wondered how the kitchen fitters were going to fit a different extractor outlet. They used a rectangular duct and just removed some bricks. Took them 20 minutes.
So in conclusion I'm very glad I didn't try and do mine up a ladder. Scaffold probably would have been better because I could have worked at a height which allowed other ways of taking the weight of the drill.
Ladder has to be the worst of the three options imo.
Hook over top 2 rungs for rigidity, and a sprung hook goes under a rung further down to keep it in place whilst you extend the ladder into position. They have rubber pads which probably has more friction against the wall than the top of the ladder alone, and the spreading of the contact points against the wall seems to add a lot more stability. I have a spotlight high up on the gable end of my house, and to change the lamp, you would need to rest the ladder end on the upstairs toilet window. The ladder stay happens to be just wide enough to straddle the window and support the ladder on the brickwork either side, which is also ver handy.
If I'm using powered tools up the ladder, I tie their mains cords round the thing, so I can't drop the tool, and if I did fall off the ladder, I don't land on the tool or the tool on me. (I'm sure most people have seen the X-ray or one of the several programmes he's been on of the guy who landed on his drill, with the bit going in his eye socket and out the back of his skull, Remarkably he survived with just the loss of the eye.)
Thanks, I'm convinced! I hadn't heard that story before - and I think I might have preferred not to know :)
Just on a practical point, I guess it's not possible to walk the ladder up the wall with one of these widgets attached - do you need to "pivot" it up? This sounds a bit tricky if going to the eaves.
I think would would have a 50/50 chance of a visit to A&E if you did this off a normal ladder. The drill is likley to be very heavy, and have a good kick on it when started .....
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