Double/Triple outlet shaver sockets

[Adam Funk]

Coincidentally, I used to know a naturist electrician.

[fred]

Let me guess, the customers were completely unphased :-?

[Michael Chare]

Google for:

EU Europe 240v mains socket splitter 1x Schuko plug to 2x Europlug sockets

It might work!

[GB]

I take it that that is not approved for UK bathrooms?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Do the regs requiring a galvanic isolated supply in a bathroom still apply where RCD house protection exists? At least some regs have been changed with this.

[bert]

In message , Gazz writes

That's why they've introduced touch controls instead of knobs.

[meow2222]

When an iso transformer is fed from rcd, its secondary output has no rcd protection. Connecting 3 items to one ouput does therefore increase the shock risk some.

It might be easier to plug tghe toothbrushes into a simple adaptor outside the bathroom.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Which was why I asked if transformer isolated shaver sockets are still required on a new build with RCD protection.

BTW, I used to work in TV studios, and before RCDs any non 'approved' mains equipment - like say a musicians' amplifier - was always fed via an isolating transformer. And each such amplifier had its own transformer - no sharing allowed. The reason being simple. If you parallel two bits of gear from the same transformer, and one has an 'L1' to case short, the other an 'L2' to case short and you touch both you get the full 240v. Now obviously two such faults are rare, but you have to allow for them.

I have a charging 'station' in the tank cupboard in my bathroom.

[Johny B Good]

I know of no electric toothbrushes that use a direct galvanic connection to the mains. They're either battery powered using disposable primary cells (AA) or else chargable from an inductive charging stand so you can discount the 110v toothbrush shock hazard.

This leaves (as it says on the tin) just the question of mains powered shavers. In this case, as per the guitar amplifiers, there remains the unlikely possibility of two people both using electric shavers from a twin outlet shaver socket recieving an electric shock via body contact _and_ both shavers being faulty as well.

The voltage hazard in this case being 110v, far less likely to prove fatal (especially in this case of a "Buddy System" where it's more than likely that at least one of the victims will shrug off the effects quickly enough to assist the other).

If I was fitting such a shaver socket, I'd choose the much safer option of a transformer that uses a centre tapped secondary winding with the centre tap connected to earth. This limits the max live to earth voltage to a mere 55vac rms, much less hazardous again.

It's still true that two people shaving from a double outlet connected to such a transformer could, in the right (wrong?) circumstances still experience a 110v shock (i.e. no worse than before) but the more likely fault when only a single person is shaving will reduce the shock voltage wrt earth.

The only way for someone to recieve a full 110v live to live shock would be for the shaver to 'fall apart in their hand' exposing them to two close spaced points of contact in said appendage with most of the current confined to the local area. Any residual current across the chest because they had been using their other hand to keep a tight grip on a handy earthed 'grab rail' would be considerably reduced over what they would experience with a simple 55vac live contact and no worse (other than as a brief transient event when 'letting go').

I don't know what the VA requirements are for a typical shaver but I'd imagine a single 50VA isolating transformer with centre tapped

110v secondary could power 2 or 3 shaver sockets wired in parallel (once you're using the 'safe option' of a 55-0-55 vac transformer - if it's good enough to allow the use of 110v power tools on an exposed to the elements building site, it's equally as good for 'wet room' use), there's no point in trying to galvanically isolate the sockets by providing a seperate transformer for each.

If you want to make the system even safer by guarding against such unintended live to live contacts between the sockets, you could go to the expense of individual RCD breakers in each live feed (seperate transformers won't make this any simpler) which, on the face of it would require 6 such breakers for three sockets (there may interlocked

3 socket RCD/ELCB modules available, specifically for this usage case but I doubt it).

Let's face it, it's only "Darwin Award Seekers" who are at risk of the 'worse case 110v shock hazard scenario where the idiot in question fails to notice that the shaver casing is on the point of 'exploding in his hand' due to broken/damaged casing retention clips/missing screws (and, at a mere 110v, the 'candidate' is unlikely to suffer electrocution even then).

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The first electric toothbrushes I saw were the same as a mains razor - no batteries.

The whole idea of safety measures like this is to provide for all possible eventualities.

110v? Most UK transformer isolated outlets are dual voltage - but you'd have to assume the worst, ie the 240v one will be used. otherwise, why provide it?

A 'mere' 55v is enough to kill under certain conditions - and by centre grounding you've doubled the chance of an electric shock at one stroke.

Most builders don't work naked. Except in some films, of course. ;-)

One RCD protecting the circuit would do. Unless there is a life support device run from it too. ;-)

You either provide for idiots or you don't. The snag is an isolated shaver socket was designed for just that. Not the multitude of tasks you may need electricity for in a modern bathroom.

[meow2222]

snip

I dont see how the chargers would be immune to causing shock.

its normally 240v, though I guess for electronic shavers you could preset the socket to deliver 110 only

then any single fault gives a shock. You'd be better off adding an RCD on the output side

a lot more likely is an appliance getting wet or a mains lead falling out into the water, and a hand in/on the water/sink/tap

single shaver transformers are usually 20VA

builders dont stand naked on wet floors or in the bath handling mains leads that drop out. Least not afaik :)

thats just confused

I dont think you need be an award seeker to have a mains lead fall out.

NT

[GB]

There is also an assumption being made further back in this thread that you cannot get a shock from an electric toothbrush charger ? one of the inductive type. Obviously, it is quite unlikely, but the case could become cracked or a lead could break.....

[Adam Funk]

Brilliant!

In fact, it wasn't until he & his wife told us they were naturists (in a non-professional capacity) that we realized why it took them a long time to answer the door & they kept their house really warm.

[Adam Funk]

By "at least some regs" do you mean foreign ones?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

No - UK ones. 'Zones' in bathrooms. Bonding, etc. I think. Not that I've ever read them - just hear about them here.

[Adam Funk]

OK, I was just wondering because AFAICT the rule banning non-shaver-sockets is still in force in the zones, even with the advent of RCDs.

Does anyone know if any other countries require special socket formats (as opposed to RCD protection) in bathrooms?

[Adam Funk]

I bought an electric toothbrush recently & noticed the contactless charger --- is that a regulatory requirement? (I also wonder if the inductive charging is why it takes so long to charge up fully.)

[Adam Funk]

Is it still the case (as an electrician told me some years ago) that you can get around the rules on sockets in bathrooms by putting a normal socket in the airing cupboard?

[charles]

my airing cupboard is nowhere near the bathroom.

[ARW]

These zones:-)?