does a satellite finder box really help when first aligning dish?

[RobertL]

I am doing a DIY satellite TV installation and it's not going well. I bought a DIY package from Maplin and I have the dish aligned as best I can with the direction of the satellite I want (Hotbirt at 13 deg East). But I cannot get any signal. The receiver woks fine when connected to an old sky dish that was on the hous ewhen we bought it.

I think the difficulty is because the receiver (Fortec Star Beta) will only give you the signal strength of the satellite you have selected from the menu. You therfore have to get both azimuth and elevation correct before you get anything. AIUI the 'sat finder' boxes will detect ANY satellite, so you only have to sweep the elevation until you hit the belt then move along it until to reach the correct azimuth.

Would it be easier if I bought one of those 'sat finder' boxes that connect between the LNB and the receiver?

Should I give up and pay an expert to do the alignment?

thanks,

Robert

[Roger Wareham]

I would definitely recommend using a sat finder, preferably one that gives an audible indication of the signal strength.

I found that the biggest problem trying to do it with the box's signal strength or quality indicator is the time delay in the response.

The technique I used was to set the dish up to a maximum signal on the finder, then check the result on the box. If there is no response, move the dish to the next satellite (carefully - they are VERY close together nowadays). When you've found the right satellite, clamp the dish just tight enough to prevent movement and lean on the edges of the dish to see if any slight alteration left, right, up or down, improves the signal. Finally, try twisting the LNB a few degrees clockwise and anti-clockwise.

Take a note of the best signal level reported by the box, and monitor it over the next few weeks to make sure it is not drifting off. It sometimes seems possible to 'wind up' some elasticity in the mount that gradually creeps back over time.

Hope this helps,

Roger.

[RobertL]

Roger, thanks for this. My problem is in finding any signal at all, so i am left wondering if there is a problem with the LNB or cable. Am I right in thinking tha tthe box will bleep when ANY satellite is pikced up or do you still have to define which one it is looking for?

R

[tony sayer]

Try a post in

alt.satellite.tv.europe

[Roger Wareham]

A satellite finder will respond to any signal from any satellite. The receiver box itself will only respond when the signal from the dish has been there long enough for the receiver electronics to lock onto it (around 2 - 3 seconds). If the dish is continually moving (as it is when you're trying to adjust it) the receiver will never be able to lock and it will look as though no signal is being received.

Roger.

[adder1969]

Try to find astra first, then work from there. I've had no problems finding hotbird or others with either my sky or non-sky receivers. Hotbird is west and about 5 degrees up (or down?) from astra.

What you can do is get it roughly right then scan the channels to see if it picks up a channel. Some channels are broadcast more strongly than others. You can then take it from there. Or, search the internet for a strong channel, tune the receiver to that channel then see if the strength indicator works.

If you've got small dish then you might find it difficult to get the channels you want. On some you can adjust the skew of the LNB but I'm not sure how you go about that.

[RobertL]

Thank you for these suggestions, and also for the idea of posting on alt.satellite.tv.europe (or reading it even).

the idea of looking for Stra first, with its stronger signal is a good idea. At the moment I'd be pleased to pick up anything just to know that the system works. the receiver works when I connect to an old astra dish on the side of the house left by the previous owner, so ifthere is anything not working it must be my cable or LNB. but it sounds as if I need to get a finder box and perhaps look for Astra first.

R

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 02:04:47 -0700 someone who may be RobertL wrote this:-

They are very useful. Last week Lidl around here was doing them very cheaply.

The box will demonstrate that the cable is working and if it picks up a satellite signal then the LNB is also working.

It may be that you have the dish elevated too much. Most of them have a built in elevation of around 20 degrees. Thus the dish should be vertical to get the 20 odd degree elevation necessary. In more northerly parts of the Uk the dish should point downwards slightly.

[RobertL]

Thanks for that. the dish as an elevation dial on the side so I think I have that roughly right. But the beam width must only be a few degrees (85cm dish) and the graduations are pretty lumpy.

i have no posted on uk.satellite.tv.europe as someone else suggested.

R

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If you'd bought the Lidl package for less money - and with a better receiver - it includes a finder.

[robert]

Silly suggestion but you do have the satellite finder connected to the receiver as well as the dish ! Robert

[Andy Hall]

Is this an Astra 1 or Astra 2 dish though? You mentioned Sky before. Their digital transponders are on Astra 2 at 28.2E. The old Astra 1 constellation is at 19.2E, much closer to Hotbird.

I have a 90cm movable dish which will sweep from about 35 degrees or so east to about 40 degrees west. Astra 2 (predictably), Astra 1 and Hotbird have the largest density of strong signals in comparison with some of the others which don't have a significant footprint over the UK.

Astra 1 and Hotbird are two good reference points, there only being one satellite of note in between (Eutelsat W2 on 16E). There are a few between Astra1 and Astra 2 and a lot that are west of Hotbird, although these are generally of lower strength apart from Thor on 0.8W.

One other thing is that there is quite a lot of encrypted material with some transponders having nothing else. Therefore, it's sensible to identify a know FTA channel first and set the receiver to that. Some receivers don't display much with encrypted channels for some time after their selection, making it even harder to make alignments.

is a useful resource for knowing what is FTA and what is not. It's not 100% accurate but is on the obvious major channels from France and Germany.

[RobertL]

I don't have a finder, I;m just using the signal strength bars that the reciver proivides on the TV. I think it's now clear that I need to get a finder and, as you say, sandwich it between the LNB and receiver.

[tony sayer]

Yes they can help but you should have by now found something!. While your atop the ladder who is looking at the receiver?..

And what set of channels are you receiving on the other dish you talk about?. Is that predominately British channels or German ones?...

[RobertL]

thank you, I will check this (and get a meter).

R

[Robert]

..

Just to finish off this discussion with a final report....

I bought a cheap satellite meter from Screwfix. I removed a few roof tiles and was then able to stand next tpo the dish without fearing falling off the ladder. I connected the meter and everything was very easy. i tilted the dish slowly up and down and soon found a satellite. it turned out to be the one i wanted to I adjusted Az and El and went downstaiors to ther reciever. Signal was good and picture seemed perfect. So I thightened everything up and put the roof back togetehr.

The beep tone from th esat finder was very useful. Its' ghreat to hear the tone as you make small adjustments to the dish.

Mnay thanks to all who contributed to the discussion.

Robert