Do we REALLY have an energy crisiss ?

OK known oil and gas is running out and burning it heats the planet due to increases in CO2, BUT , we are living on a big ball of molten iron with a relatively thin crust, and at any point if you drill downwards for a few 10's to 100's of miles it gets amazingly hot. Surely this geothermal source should be our salvation, and research be poured into the technology needed rather than faffing about with wind / wave / nuclear solutions? It's a practically unlimited energy source anywhere on the globe. The oil industry can already drill hugely deep holes so the basic technology is in place - just need higher temperature techniques and materials for the last few miles of drilling!

AWEM

Reply to
Andrew Mawson
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Would you mind if I posted your post (credited of course) on

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Reply to
Grunff

Probably depends if you're going to ridicule him or laud him as the planet's saviour!

Reply to
Andy Burns

I think you'll find drilling 100 mile long holes is just little bit more difficult than you realise......

Philip

Reply to
philipuk

Nah, Bruce Willis managed it just fine.

David

Reply to
Lobster

Neither, just discuss the subject.

Reply to
Grunff

planet

molten

research be

No problem at all

AWEM

Reply to
Andrew Mawson

Thank you kindly.

Reply to
Grunff

planet

molten

research be

South African diamond mines are unbearably hot at a depth of just under two miles (3.5 km). As I understand it the crust varies from zero at the gushy bit (lava flows) to 70km under the Andes and averages 40 km on the continental bits of the globe. For it to be usablely hot you don't need to dip your drill in the magma, just get close to it !

AWEM

Reply to
Andrew Mawson

You may not need to go as deep as others thought but I'm still not sure that it's a DIY project that many of us could tackle.

Reply to
Adrian Cotton

=============================== Also, Professor Challenger, with unexpected results:

"When the Earth screamed", A.C.Doyle

Cic.

Reply to
Cicero

Andrew Mawson wrote

The thinnest parts of the crust are underwater. I remember an attempt called Project Moho back in the 60's. That's long been abandoned, but the attempt has been taken up by these people:

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Reply to
Brian L Johnson

Re supply of energy... o Several geothermal power stations exist o One pilot plant exists in a National Park in the USA o Small, compact, quite powerful, sits below a low tree line (12ft)

One problem is the scale required and cheap solutions require rather geologically specific areas which are not that abundant.

The problem is not an energy crisis or cost, but political. Lobbyists have too much power, UK has followed the USA.

Alternative energy... o Transported Hydrogen -- will never be viable

---- H is not easily liquefied making transportation & storage difficult o Fuel Cell derived Hydrogen -- may be viable someday

---- requires replacement cars / car industry / supply chain

---- GM can do plastic cars now, but parts industries would vanish o Stored Electricity -- viable now via Lithium Ion batteries

---- requires replacement cars / car industry / supply chain

---- GM can do plastic cars now, but parts industries would vanish

Fuel Cell & Battery technologies would destroy much industry. o You would gain fuel cell & battery producing manufacturers o You would lose every manufacturer related to the IC engine o You would lose a lot of competitive advantage overnight

That politically is why USA, Germany & Japan will not do it. An electric car in its purest forms has very few parts which in turn makes labour cost a dominant component, profit the least. Consider Ford alone have about 165B$ in debt, and most debt & leasing in businesses is hidden in Off Balance Accounting.

Any viable fuel solution needs to combine three elements: o Provide a direct substitute for oil in cars / power stations / planes

---- removes the need for vast CapEx spend on electric cars

---- removes the need to destroy parts industries around IC engines o Provide a carbon neutral or ideally carbon negative effect

---- carbon negative like a heat pump CoP figure (more out than in) o Provide a political lobbyist acceptable solution

---- which is the stumbling block

The viable fuel is plant derived alcohol fuels. o Existing cars & technology is readily adapted

---- no major CapEx, no lost parts industries around IC engines

---- migration to other technologies amortised over time o Carbon negative potentially through plants

---- plants remove CO2, car produces CO2 o Political lobbyist unacceptable

---- UKs most profitable companies are oil & supermarket :-)

---- replacing oil execs with farmers is not going to excite them

It would be interesting to know if plant ethanols could be viably be used to power existing gas stations (not just a burner change :-)

If nuclear is blocked in the UK, we could simply outsource it: o Nuclear plant can be located anywhere in France for example o Electricity is then simply piped to us (and warms a lot of cable)

UK nuclear stations are not ideally positioned re sea level rise.

GM can produce a plastic composite car tomorrow. o The problem is not cost or engineering or performance (it does better) o The problem is the cycle time in producing the panels (still too high)

So there is not an energy crisis, just political protectionism. Business & politicians are now inseparable, which makes both idle.

You could argue we are reaching a peak in Consumption (spending). o Present taxation system is quite heavily based around Consumption o If Consumption were to fall then Energy is a natural taxation target

Energy is a very attractive indirect taxation target for Moron Brown. In an outsourced society it is that which can not be that gets expensive.

Global warming changes in the West are quite irrelevant since most of the big industrials have moved plant East so they can enjoy the ability to walk away from environmental legislation whatsoever.

Governments can not even understand compound interest, so a bit of a stretch to make them understand energy policy. The last light to be turned off will be in government, only then will a light turn on.

Reply to
Dorothy Bradbury

For those of you fortunate enough to live next door to a Volcano, there are even easier access methods for hot stuff. Just sling a bucket over the fence and drag back a load of MOLTEN LAVA! No holes required.

Seriously though folks, Andrew raises an interesting question, especially as there are so many near-to-surface hot features. Why isn't research going on into using them?

R.

Reply to
TheOldFellow

There is actually quite a lot going on with geothermal power - ie there is research going on into using them, and in fact more than that - it's actually being used in real life.

cheers, clive

Reply to
Clive George

Southampton has a geothermal power station. I'm not sure how deep the bore is but Googling for 'West Quay' should turn up further details.

Bob

Reply to
Bob Minchin

The CEGB did experiments around Southampton in the 1970's, as I recall the problems were that a significant proportion of the water that you pump down as a heat transfer agent "goes missing", also that when you do the sums they work OK at the start, then the performance drops off because you are cooling off the hot rock faster than it warms up. Works fine in places like Iceland of course but has to be engineered to cope with the nasty corrosive sulphurous water.

Reply to
Newshound

I dunno I'll get me black and decker out tomorrow and give it a try :) maybe I can drain all that black oily stuff we have in the garden away :D

Reply to
Dwayne & Angela

If it was used during the summer in reverse as an air conditioner the heat would at least in part be put back? maybe?

Reply to
Dwayne & Angela

What about using small nuclear reactors - of the type that have been used for years in submarines? They could be located off shore to give good cooling water supplies. The technology seems to be sound.

Many small ones around the coast would minimise distribution costs and losses.

Reply to
John

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