Cheaper on a meter?

[T i m]

Greetings oh learned folk of the list.

.. inspired to ask by the recent gas / lectric meter thread ..

When we had our own spur supplied directly off the main (when we built the bathroom extension bit) and I think they mentioned we could have a water meter fitted? Previously we were '1 of 8' on a shared main.

I wasn't sure at the time if it was a good idea or what. I think Mum is on a meter (well her house anyway ) and she mentioned that her water bill reduced considerably? She is a keen gardner but collects rainwater for the garden.

We rarely use the hose (luckily no garden) the cars are too old to dare washing them and we have (because I fitted it 15 years ago) a split flush cistern on our only loo.

We (3 off) prefer to shower as the nice corner bath makes a roomy shower 'cubical'.

We do change 10l of water in my Daughters tropical fish tank every week, and we have been know to wash the motorbikes now and again (bucket for wash and quick hose off).

We do regularly use the washing machine (every night) and dishwasher (every third night).

The only 'downer' is the instant (gas) water heater (1st floor). It's quite a long run (9m tops) to the small hand basin in the bathroom (ground floor). This is currently mostly in 22mm (even though the feed to the heater is mains and 15mm) as it also feeds the bath and was, at one time, going to be fed from a conventional cylinder. I *could*, re run it in 15 mm or maybe fit a small electric 'instant' water heater in the bathroom or, if it get's complicated (electrically) in the 'utility area' just through the wall? We generally only use that basin for hand washing during the day and teeth etc morning and night.

So, "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi(s)" (please)

All the best ..

T i m

[Christian McArdle]

It sounds to me like you'd save a fortune on a meter.

Christian.

[T i m]

You reckon? Are water costs a constant across the country and what are they based on? Ie, would your unmetered bill be similar to mine? (I haven't got a clue what mine is though .. 'she' sorts all that out .. ;-)

All the best .

T i m

[Neil Jones]

How much are you paying currently and who supplies your water?

Neil

[T i m]

Good questions ;-)

Just rummaged about and found a bill

Thames Water (tastes like it) and the bill breaks down like this ..

Service charges 1st April - 31st March (366 days?)

Water Charge value/rate/pound 169 @ 35.33p

Supply 59.71 ... fixed charge 17.00 .. Total 76.71

Waste Charge value/rate/pound 169 @ 25.82p

Supply 43.64 ... fixed charge 28.00 .. Total 71.64

Total charges 148.35 ?

Any help?

We know they can meter the water takeup so I might be able to deal with the 'quantity' component of the water charges of 59.71.

Do they charge for the fitting / rent of the meter?

I'll assume they won't charge me less for the waste service on the grounds we would only be able to pass about the same volume of liquid that we drink (not that I drink water neat .. have you seen what fish do in it ..?) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

[David Hearn]

AFAIK, water charges are based on the size of the property. 1 bed flat gets charged less than a 4 bed house. Therefore the best savers to go on a meter are those in a large property but with little usage (ie. few people). An old woman in a 3 bed house will make a large saving, whereas 3 people in a 3 bed house may not make any saving (or may even be charged more if they have daily showers/baths and use washing machines a lot etc).

Some water companies alllow you to chose to have it removed later if you're not saving any money - however, I believe that some don't. Also some people do not like the idea of water meters and therefore when selling your house may be put off (though of course, the possible additional cost of water may be small compared to having the house they want).

David

[Neil Jones]

From what you say I expect my family of 3 used more water than you did last year - I washed the car a few times, watered some new planting a few times in August and my daughter has a bath each night. Our washing machine and dishwasher are used daily but they are modern, low(er) water usage models.

Our water supply bill was ~£65 and sewerage was ~£78 (seperate companies) so our total was a bit less than yours.

Meters are usually fitted for free these days, and while you don't exactly pay rent for it, according to Thames Water the standing charge for a meter is higher than for unmetered.

Sewerage charges are based on a standard reduction on the metered volume.

I would imagine that you probably would save some money, but the saving will probably not be enormous. For comparison, before we were metered our water bill was about £300 pa. so it was obvious we wre going to save money by having a meter fitted.

In your case it is probably worth trying to estimate your water usage in an average week, then speak to Thames Water to get the tarrif information and calculate your expected bill. On the other hand, our supplier, Mid Kent Water, will let you switch back to unmetered after a year if you reckon you're not saving money. If Thames Water do the same you could try it and see.

Hope this helps

Neil

[Set Square]

I would be very careful!

Your current arrangement is based on the rateable value of your property (which looks pretty low at UKP 169) and on the rate per pound for water and sewerage charges - which also look low compared with what Severn Trent charge.

If you go onto a meter, you will pay for actual usage. The people who benefit most are those living in large houses with a high rateable value but who only use a small amount of water - maybe because there's only one person in the house.

Most water boards send out literature from time to time, encouraging you to go onto a meter. This often includes a ready reckoner for working out your likely consumption and the likely annual costs if you were to transfer to a meter.

Get hold of a copy of this, and do the sums very carefully. In your particular circumstances, you may well find that you would be *worse* off.

Most water boards are fitting meters for free, and I think that there is still an option to revert to the original fixed price method after one year if this would be cheaper - unless you've got a swimming pool or fixed irrigation system etc..

AIUI, with a meter, the sewerage charge is based on the assumption that the volume of sewage which you generate is the same as the volume of water which you take from the tap. I think there is also an estimate of the amount of rainwater going down the sewer - unless you have a separate surface water drainage system.

HTH.

Cheers, Set Square

[Notty Pine]

Check very carefully on minimum charges before proceeding, (there usually will be a minimum charge), as £148.35 seems to be at the lower end of the scale, and is probably lower, or near to what the minimum is.

[VivienB]

We were able to work this out using the 'ready reckoner' table in the booklet about getting a water meter that Wessex Water supplied when we asked, plus figures given with the newish washing machine and dishwasher. The meter hasn't yet been in long enough to know whether it is in line with the approximate calculation I did, though.

I had a meter fitted in my own house years ago, in the Severn Trent water supply area, but as it was a one-person household, that was certain to be less expensive!

I got the impression from the guide figures that a one or two-person household is almost sure to save, so long as they are not profligate with water. A three-person household would not be so clear cut.

Regards, VivienB

[Lee]

I agree, our last bill, based on rateable value, was £136 for the year. Also with Thames Water. Estimating our water usage, a meter would have worked out to around £150, needless to say that we declined the offer :)

No hosepipe either :)

Lee

[Al Reynolds]

Seriously? I pay South West Water in excess of £450 a year for my (fixed) water rates. Before when I had a meter, it was almost exactly the same. I hadn't realised how much SWW were ripping us off. :-(

Al

[Neil Jones]

According to Ofwat, South West Water's average bill for water supply is £121 vs the industry average of £111. However, the average charge for sewerage is £221 vs £125.

Your sewerage charge has gone up by more than 60% in real terms since

1989.

Ouch.

Regards

Neil

[T i m]

Ooops, sorry for raising the point Al!

Quick Lee grab yer coat .. !

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. Do SWW deliver it in bottles for that money? Or maybe it's special water .. piped in from the Malverns or summat?

>

[BillV]

Mine is pretty much the same. An elderly couple in SWW's area I know would not use the dishwasher in their new pupose designed flat because of fear of the water meter. They kept veg in it for a while then gave it away ...

[Christian McArdle]

Madness. A modern dishwasher uses less water than hand washing.

Christian.

[Andrew]

We (2 adults 3 young kids) had a meter fitted when it was free and there was the option to have it removed if we didn't save money. Our bill halved in the first year so we kept the meter :-) This was in a 4 bed detached. A smaller property would be charged less to start with on a non-metered tariff so the saving would be less. Having said that, my father in a 2-bed semi saved so much they were almost paying him to take the water.

Andrew

[Neil Jones]

In the flat I lived in a few years ago I was being paid by British Gas to heat the place and cook my supper.

Neil

[Lee]

:)

Won't be long before TW puts theirs up too, didn't they just apply to Ofwat for permission to increase prices to fund "modernisation" :(

Lee

[N. Thornton]

It sounds like youd probably save, but only because usage is frugal. Most people avoid water metering because it would cost them more. If your habits ever change you may end up paying more instead of less, and when you sell, the buyers wont be happy having to pay more for their water, so that can affect your sale value.

If one could really save money, water meters would be popular. They have been priced such that one has to be mean to save, but if you are, you will.

Your grey and brown water disposal is calculated as a percentage of water received.

If you want to save further once metered, you could plumb a rainwater system in for the toilet flush. Theres more to it than just collect and pipe to the cistern though.

Regards, NT