Approx prices for glass please (for vivarium).

[T i m]

They (he) thinks it was the latter Andy, especially as they were related etc.

Are we talking about the snake or our daughter here?

Snake is about 3, daughter 17. ;-)

Ah, ok.

So does that mean if you have a 10' snake you need a 10' viv Andy?

Yes, I was suggesting the 12" wide plastic laminates stuff you can get in 'Pine, Oak, Maple' etc. I would ensure any exposed edges were 'edged' and any cut edges were sealed within a joint etc.

I was going to ask. If we build this from an un surfaced / un laminated material like plain Chipboard, Wafer board or even MDF, was there something we could paint (varnish would probably be ok on Wafer board) it with that would be reptile 'safe'. This might give us the opportunity for some more flexibility in the design?

What if the tracks were sealed on say a bed of silicone Andy, so nothing could get underneath?

I don't think she's got any issues with form over function Andy, it's more an issue of buying something to fit her room ... or not?

Understood.

Ah, so generally darker rather than lighter (we will put a solid back on it then if we go that way).

*My* only worry re spending that sort of money (assuming we could get something to fit) is that if this hobby turns out to be short lived. I don't think it will though as she had a 'Reptile Party' for her 16th and seems as keen as ever. ;-)

All the best and thanks again ...

T i m

p.s. She was allowed to have the snake on the understanding it stayed round her boyfriends (I have no issues with the creatures, just we don't have a huge house). I think this 'project' is more for her to be able to bring her snake home sometimes but has sort of been brought in via the back door to some degree. I'm not strictly against her having it here as long as she provides it a proper home (your advice taken on board here) and if she was able to design / build it herself I don't mind helping / encouraging her.

[Andy Hall]

I think that he's probably right.

Then you definitely need toughness.

At that sort of length you could probably compromise a bit - perhaps

2m, but probably not less. Another factor is if the snake is naturally arboreal - likes to climb. Then something is needed in the enclosure so that they can do that. Really it's a lot about maintaining the snake in a low degree of stress. Rule of thumb is not under 2/3 of adult body length. More is better.

I wouldn't use any of those materials, especially not MDF. It's really compressed paper and resin and on contact with water will tend to disintegrate.

A better solution would be WBP ply.

With laminated chipboard, you might get a couple of years life out of it with care and with maintenance of the silicone.

That helps, but eventually it does, so it's important to design it such that the silicone can easily be stripped out and replaced. One could also design it so that the entire front wooden component can be changed.

I see. I think that you could probably get away with about a 1m vivarium for a corn snake, but not really too much less.

The snakes don't *need* much light (i.e. not UV and all the rest of it like some reptiles), so it's there for the benefit of the humans. For some, it can stress them.

Compare this one (BRB)

this (python).

of eye in proportion to head and the amount it protrudes are a clue, but also one can consider its natural environment.

Well.. It's that and it's also commitment. Many snakes will live a good 20 years - although 10-12 for corn snakes is more typical.. Corn snakes are quite common because they are easily bred, docile and relatively easy to care for. Therefore, there is not usually much of a "second hand" market for them. I'm not going to do any kind of moral lecture here, but I'm sure you see the point.

This is a skillset learned long before age 17 but becoming more adventurous.

Yes, it is a difficult one. On the one hand, one wants to encourage a new interest. On the other, interests can be fads with 17 year old girls (I have that T shirt). I think what you could do is to have the long term commitment and responsibility discussion and include the "what if" of if she gets some other interests.

What you could do, I suppose, is to go for the laminated chipboard approach for now and then to review it all in say a year.

[T i m]

It was quite sad, even for me.

Ok ;-)

Ok, still a big viv then!

I know I could ask her / find out but are corns arboreal Andy?

I sorta had that in the back of my mind when she specced the viv out at 12" high. Most of the vivs I've seen in pet shops (not that I've seen many etc) seemed to be more along fish tank ratios. (ie 24-36" long, 15" deep and 18" high sort of thing)?

Ok and thanks.

Understood, except I thought we were going to fully seal it with a skin of varnish? Isn't that waferboard (the big lumps of random wood) used for shuttering and already waterproof to some degree?

Yeah, again, not cheap though ... :-(

And that might be enough (re our conclusions).

Understood, sort of a sacrificial panel.

Ok, well, I would insist that anything she bought / made had the best interests of the animal at heart. There is no doubt that many animals can adapt to less_than_ideal living circumstances but from our pov that should be avoided if at all possible. I would rather she had nothing than something not 'comfortable'.

Ok ..

Nice, thanks for that. I was thinking there are some snakes that do live out in the desert so must really get exposed to the sun (even if they seek shelter etc).

We used to have dogs (whippet, whippet/terrier, lurcher, all rescue animals) and our family has always had and still has whippets. When we lost the last one we decided not to have another, simply because of how much of a tie they were (and we like going away on our motorbikes etc). I think I understand that snakes can exist comfortably for fairly long periods on their own but would never allow her to leave one unattended for more than a day or so.

I think her b/f get's many of his pets via Preloved (including their Ball Pythons and their corn snakes). He tends to take them from families that are fed up or running out of space for their animals, get them healthy then move them on to more caring / suitable homes later on. Hi latest interest is axalotals and I'm pleased as I have been able to give him some unused fish tanks I've had kicking about for a while! ;-)

I do indeed Andy.

LOL, Same here ... ;-)

:-)

Luckily she's quite 'sensible' and generally thinks things through but she is only 17 so I sometimes have to moderate her ideas slightly (as the missus regularly does with me) ;-)

Yup, that seems to be the least financial investment with the most rewards for her (designing / building it herself) and for the same money as a shop bought jobby, maybe put a bit more care / thought into the construction / sealing.

I've not brought the topic up again though .. I've got enough to do myself!

All the best ..

T i m