Question about water volume vs. pipe size and fitting size

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In the winter time I would like to use my 1" lawn irrigation water
source to flood a skating rink located about 200 feet from the house.
If I ran a 1" hose out to the skating rink, but I had a smaller
diameter fitting in the middle of the run, would water volume be
reduced very much?

Here is a description of my system: I have a 1" pipe that connects
directly from my well to my lawn irrigation system.  The pipe exits
the house into a tee.  One side (1" diameter) goes up to a shutoff
valve, followed by some kind of pressure valve and then down into the
ground to the irrigation system.  The other side of the tee goes down
about 6" to a standard garden hose valve.  That valve is used in the
fall to blow out the irrigation system with an air compressor.  I want
to use the garden hose outlet for flooding the rink.  I understand
that if I used a long run of a 3/4" hose, then the water volume would
be limited.  However, if I were to attach a 1" hose to the garden hose
valve using the appropriate fitting, would volume be affected much by
the smaller diameter valve?  In electronics this would be like
inserting a resistor, which would definitely affect the current flow.
So the question is "how big is this resistor"?  In case it matters, my
well pump is capable of pumping about 20 gallons per minute.  I could
find out more specifications if necessary.  By the way, in case you're
wondering, I plan on blowing out the system from inside the house each
time I use it (there are convenient air hose fittings in the pipe in
the utility room).

I am a little concerned about getting water into the irrigation system
even with the shutoff valve closed (such as if there were a tiny
trickle of leakage).  Any words of advice regarding this?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Greg

Re: Question about water volume vs. pipe size and fitting size
.
goes up to a shutoff
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OK,, first if your worried about leakage back into the irrigation system,,
add another ballvalve past the tee for the shutoff drain that drains the
system,
then you can shut it on and off as needed.

the shutoff /drainvalve itself is a reducer,, so unless you have a fullport
open ballvalve shutoff,
with some kind of full open gardenhose adapter on the end
your reducing the volume right before you even run a garden hose of any
diamter.
so you would probably want to change the drain valve as well.

are you looking for a faster way to fill the skating rink? or concerned
about the pump
from your system running out of water?




Re: Question about water volume vs. pipe size and fitting size
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I was thinking about that.  I would have two shutoff valves in series.
I guess the process would be to close the first one while I'm flooding
the rink and open it when I'm done.  That way, water will not stay in
the pipe between the valves and freeze.  Always keep the 2nd one
closed.  I might have an issue with getting the 1st one to close if it
freezes open.  Maybe just keep both valves off all the time.  If the
pipe between the valves freezes and breaks, there would be no harm to
the irrigation system.
 
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I think you're answering my question, but not directly.  What you're
saying is any restriction in the line, no matter how short in length,
will reduce the flow volume noticeably.  Sometimes in practice there
are other factors to be considered.  Is it possible that the pump
would increase the pressure because of the restriction?  That would
increase flow at the expense of the pump working harder.  I am not a
plumber and so I am looking for the simplest solution, which is using
the existing garden hose valve with some screw-on adapters to get me
back to 1".  If the best solution requires getting the torch out or
hiring a plumber I'll do that.

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I am concerned about flooding the rink as quickly as possible.  When
the well was first installed they did not place the pump low enough in
the well and the irrigation system did run it dry.  They lowered it
another 40 feet and there is no problem now of draining it.  It can
actually pump 25 gallons per minute straight out of the well, and
about 20 gallons per minute out of the 1" irrigation pipe.

Greg

Re: Question about water volume vs. pipe size and fitting size
don't use a ball valve if it's subject to freezing.
kenny b

Re: Question about water volume vs. pipe size and fitting size
kennybs@adelphia.net (kenny b) wrote in message
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What type of valve would be ok to use if it's subject to freezing?

I assume a ball valve is ok to use if you kept it closed all winter, right?

Greg

Re: Question about water volume vs. pipe size and fitting size

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why cant he use a ballvalve?  decent ballvalves dont let water thru,
if he drains the system correctly..how could it freeze?




Re: Question about water volume vs. pipe size and fitting size
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Thanks for your replies to my questions.
A 1" irrigation pipe will screw on to the drain valve through the
appropriate adapter fittings.  The type of pipe I will use is that
semi-rigid black stuff that comes coiled in a big roll.

I have decided to experiment with it since it will be easy enough to
do and won't cost much to try.  I tried to measure the flow out of the
drain valve and I got pretty wet because it comes out with such force.
 It doesn't come out in a nice narrow stream because of the narrowing
in the valve.  As it comes out it fans out in a cone.  The flow is
actually very good.  I measured about 20 gallons per minute, though I
might be off a little because I couldn't start and stop my stopwatch
and turn the valve all at the same time.  I think it will be good
enough.  I can always do something about it in the future.  My main
concern would be water getting past the shutoff valve.  I might hire a
plumber to insert another one in series.

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I learned a little about wells when the well driller had to come back
and fix our well when our irrigation system ran it dry.  Our well is
about 300 feet deep.  The bottom 30 feet or so is narrower than the
first 270 feet.  After they drilled down about 270 feet they switched
to a smaller diameter bit to drill the last 30 feet.  Then they put in
270 feet of well casing (PVC schedule 80?).  The pipe bottoms out at
270 feet because of the narrower diameter of the well at that point.
The bottom 30 feet is where the water seeps in.  The productivity of
the well depends upon what the earth is like where you drill the well.
 You might be lucky enough to hit an underground stream.  Or it might
be really dry sandstone and it might take a while for the water to
replenish.  The water in the bottom 30 feet actually pushes up towards
to surface.  Our well pump is not at the bottom of the well.  In fact
it is about 60 feet down below the surface.  It was at about 20 feet
until they lowered it.  The well company had an employee that thought
he knew better and said that 20 feet was all that was needed.  He no
longer works for them and they were being called back to a lot of
installations where the well couldn't keep up with the demand.  Bottom
line, every well has a certain flow rate where you can pump
continuously.  Since the pump in my well was lowered, I have never had
a problem pumping at 20 gallons per minute continuously.

As for ice rinks, I made a mistake last winter and let the hose run
for about two hours (flow rate about 5 gallons per minute).  My ice
rink is actually a swamp that froze over pretty well last year.  After
the swamp froze, the water continued to drain underneath the frozen
surface.  That left a void.  When I ran the hose for two hours it
punctured a hole through the ice and for quite a while I had a hard
time plugging up the hole.  I eventually figured out the secret was to
use a snow slush mixture to plug up the holes.  This year I want to be
able to put on a coat of water in short time.  Instead of standing out
there for 45 minutes, I should be able to get it done in about 10-15
minutes.

Greg

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