PRICE PER FIXTURE

Guys, I've asked you this question before and I get all sorts of non-answers.
In my area, the standard rate per fixture (assume track home - not custom home) is $450 per fixture. And for a simple breakdown.... House plumbed using pex supply lines, std. "builders" (cheap) fixtures, and foamcore pipe.
Bathroom #1: Toilet Lavatory Fiberglass Tub/Shower
Bathroom #2: Toilet Lavatory Fiberglass Tub/Shower
Kitchen: Kitchen Sink (no dishwasher)
Laundry: Washer Box
Water Heater
Sewer/Water Line
Total Fixtures = 10 x $450 = $4500 (ie, shit money...not worth doing the work) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now is that so fucking difficult? These prices are what to expect for residential construction in North Carolina (Greensboro, High Point, Winston-Salem area).
What I want to know are average prices in other areas of the country. Can you guys give me a fucking straight answer without being so god-damned obtuse.
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Geezus....Did you have to ask so NICELY? :>)
First of all, I don't do tract houses, and don't touch PEX, and I don't touch foamcore. That said however, I do a few custom homes every now and then. I am in Texas so the illegals do most of the houses and all the tract houses. But here's a breakdown for a typical house I would do and the minimum specifications. If I touch it the piping has to be type "M" copper (minimum) and schedule 40 PVC wastes and vents. We only use lead stubs and lead flashings. Period. The stainless braided flexible supplies, chrome Moen brass and Crane chinaware:
Master WC - 1 Lavatories - 2 (4550) Garden tub - 1 (by others) Shower - 1 (by others)
Guest #1 WC - 1 Lavatory - 1 (4550) Tub & shower - 1 (steel)
Powder WC - 1 Ped lavatory - 1 (4550) +$200
Kitchen sink - 1 +$400 (Americast W/Delta waterfall) <or equal>
50 Gallon gas water heater - 1
Washer - 1
Gas openings - Up to 7 @ $ 125 each = $ 875
Exterior utilities (up to 60' waste & water) = $ 800
Downdraft = + $ 200
13 Total fixtures @ $ 500 = 6,500 Adds (+'s) & extra's = $ 1,600 Gas system = $ 875 Project Total = $ 8,975
I charge extra for fiberglass tubs ($300) I charge extra for cast iron tubs ($300) Of course I charge extra for fixtures that exceed the price of the quoted fixtures on a "list to list" basis. Utilities that exceed the quote are $ 12 per foot for sanitary up to 6' in depth and $6 per foot for water service. No taps or tap fees.
I may have overlooked something in my hurried response to your so "politely" asked question. If you have any more, ask away. Just try not to hurt my sensitive feelings.....:>)
Bob Wheatley
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Thanks Bob, I'm just trying to get some bearing on how pricing changes from one area to the next. If my question seems impolite, I apologize for that. I've asked these goofy bastards this exact same question again and again. and typically it turns into some way-off-the-fucking-mark thread that never answers the original question. So I appreciate your feedbac.
A fellow I know in Buffalo New York says they get $1200/fixture but they only use "L" copper and PVC.
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:19:19 -0500, "Bob Wheatley"

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No problem. It ain't exactly a state secret.:>)

They would need to for their cost of living up there. What's a 1 bedroom apartment up there? $2000 a month? My apprentices here run between $12-$15 per hour, and my Journeymen here run between $21-$25 per hour. Although I do pay more than most. I know some plumbers that are working for what I pay my helpers.
Bob Wheatley
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That's good money compared to pay-scale in our area. In our area, a good apprentice will make $8.00 - $12.00 per hour. Journeymen plumbers are typically earning $16-$18 per hour. There are a few shops that pay a little more. But the industry standard in my area sucks.
In my area, the contractors have gotten way out of control. They work against you the whole time. They don't pay at all or they'll drag paying their subs out for several months. The contractors in my area really jerk their subs all over the place. Most of them just sorta go with the flow.
I've seen quite a few of my friends get out of the business entirely. The profitability in the plumbing trades in my area are reaching a point of critical mass. The trend towards per-fixture pricing is sliding towards the range of $425 per fixture. There are a few guys out there doing new residential construction for $385/fixture (if you can believe that!!)
Personally, I shifted my focus on commercial work becaue it still pays pretty well. But slowly the commercial side of the construction trades is following that same path. I think I'm about ready to toss in the towel too. I'm not interested in working for chump change. I can stay home and watch TV and make the same money.
So based on supply and demand, what do you figure plumbers in the Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama areas are going to be earning? Surely you've seen all the Katrina damage. There is going to be a lot of demand....but your supply of qualified plumbers is going to fall way short of addressing the need. I've been trying to crunch numbers. The best I can figure is that plumbers in that region, during the rebuild phase, can expect $1500-$2000 per fixture. It may be higher than that as material prices increase by 150% or more. But I don't have a lot of data from which to extrapolate those numbers. Do you have any best-guess on what is going to happen in that region? They'll have to pay out enough to attract out-of-state plumbers to that area. I'm going to leave that good-will effort up to you guys and keep my fingers crossed that all of you get rich. I'm staying home and I'll watch you guys work in the HOT and humid southern sun on CNN. Go on Bob...go get that money!!
On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:43:22 -0500, "Bob Wheatley"

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My dad was a plumber. I was introduced into this business at a very early age. I not only feel your pain....I live it. It's the same everywhere. I remember back in the 80's that we could not get helpers started into our business because of the imbalance between working conditions and what we could pay and what they could get driving a truck or a forklift. For god's sake it takes less time to become a doctor than a good plumber.

It's the same here. Every dickhead you work for wants the work done yesterday, for half price, and they'll pay you next year.:>)

That's another problem in our business. We don't share information as well as we should and we end up cannibalizing each other. I can't name all the idiots over the years that start their own business out of the back of a pickup truck, low-ball numbers to get their foot in the door, and end up going out of business a couple of years later. While that does get rid of them, there is a never ending line of wannabe's to take their place. We all take a test to get our plumbing license. There is no such test for us to be businessmen.
> Personally, I shifted my focus on commercial work becaue it still pays

Yes. That's why I do very little housing. All you can do at this point is to increase your skills beyond your competitors so you can price accordingly. Information sharing such as this is also something that we as plumbers should do more often.

Insurance companies have great experience in knowing what they can get away with. Don't expect them to pay double or triple what the value actually is.

My best guess is that there may be as high as a 35% premium available. But that's probably going to be about it.

Not me. I'm just North of Houston and my plate is full. Hell, I just met late today about a hospital rehab they want to convert to a facility for the evacuees. That tragedy is exploding into my own area.
Bob Wheatley
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Because enameled steel is the baseline and ...... #1 steel tub = $80 +/- Fiberglass tub = $225 +/- #2 A steel tub can be set in about half the time of a fiberglass by the time you knock studs out and get the fiberglass T&S level. Besides, the tight assed contractor or homeowner who requests a fiberglass is saving $1000-$2000 in tub surround that they won't need with a fiberglass. Not to mention the sheer pain in the ass of hauling fiberglass one-piece units.
Bob Wheatley
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replying to Blackbeard , john wrote:

Feel the same have been building for 30 plus years
New construction priced by fixture Above good outline Problem some houses easier than others
I now live in rural area moved from DC. Cost seem to high here
On average the charge is 750 per fixture with break down in 1/3. 250 labor 250 material 250 fixture allowance
Usually ice maker and two hose ibis thrown in every thing else is fixture. Water Heater included in fixture cost not larger than 50 gallon Rennai between 1700 to 2500 extra
So a quick break down of 14 fixture is material minus fixtures 3500 Labor 3500
I have installed whole house should be able to do in 2 days rough 1day fixtures add extra day and cost per hour 109 per hour This is usually time it takes for one man
I suppose I our area for legitimate plumber that is reasonable after govt cost business cost probably nets 40 to 50 an hour
None of our one man plumbers are getting rich at these cost
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replying to Blackbeard, #plumber1 wrote: Yes quit being a hole and prob get more help
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