claw foot tub drain plumbing question


Hello, just joined this excellent group.
I have a small older (1926) rental house with a rough but functional basement. The basement floor is concrete. There is a circular drain in the floor in the existing 1/2 bathroom, located about 2' away from the basement wall, and from the main vertical waste line for the whole house which is located up against that wall. I'm pretty certain that this floor drain is connected to the main waste line under the concrete via a sanitary tee or similar fitting (there are no issues at all with odor or anything, at any rate).
We want to install a claw foot tub in this bathroom; fits nicely in the available space, no tile work to hassle with, etc., so seems like a pretty good way to go in this old basement.
My question is this: is it sensible, legal, practical to basically modify this floor drain's hardware and plumb the tub's drain pipe to this floor drain? It's entirely possible to position the tub such that its drain pipe is perfectly centered on the existing floor drain, no problem. I had one guy come by to have a look at it, and he had some fuzzy but concerning comments about how he thought some concrete jack-hammering and cutting and such would be necessary...oh man! I don't understand why it would necessarily need to be that heavily modified...
I'd note that there is at least one other floor drain in the basement (maybe a couple), so I'm not necessarily all that averse to "losing" this one floor drain in the bathroom. Or, I could envision a "custom" piece of hardware that both permitted tub draining, and floor draining, simultaneously. I've got a home machine shop and can make such things, if they're functional and sensible...
Thanks much for your time thinking about this deal! Charley Hale Lafayette CO
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you could let the tub drain into the floor drain .if you tie in to floor drain pipes youll need a trap to keep gass's out of the room.
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Here's the scoop,
The easiest thing to do isn't a very good idea. That is to just run the tub waste & overflow towards the floor drain, and then just let it run indirectly into the top of the drain. The reason it's not good is that if it's to be actually used as a bathtub, then hair, soap, and scum will be spilling onto the floor. It'll be a stinky, dirty mess after a while. The right way to do it is to break up the floor (this really isn't as hard as it seems), cut out the old floor drain and run new piping and trap to the tub. At the same time, you'll have to provide some sort of venting. There might be a vent pipe to tie into, assuming there's a laundry tub in the basement. You could also sneak in a vent check, but install it above the flood level rim of the highest fixture in the basement. You also should realize the diameter of those old tubs are 1 3/8" instead of 1 1/2". I've probably said just enough to confuse you, but it's not as hard as it sounds.
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If its a floor drain it's already trapped and it should already be legally vented, make a solid connection to it and be done with it. I would consider some type of arrangement for future cleaning of the line.
kenny b
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On May 6, 1:40 pm, snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.net wrote:

I know some don't, but most codes have different rules for floor drain vents than other fixtures. How is it in your area?
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You say most codes have different rules, I don't agree with "most". Some may be different under the newer codes which would be less stringent as plumbing becomes dumbed down in our country mostly by a new generation of idiots. But following the older codes that are the foundation of modern plumbing as we know it will never steer you wrong. Lets not forget codes are only mininum standards that we are required to meet, nothing says you can't exceed them.
Could you give us an example of the different rules your talking about.
kenny b
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The UPC in Indiana (and the BOCA in MIchigan) back in the '70's simply said that floor drains need not be vented. The justification, though I think they were rationalizing, was to protect the trap from evaporation.
How long can a trap arm be for a 2" drain? Doesn't the vent normally have to extend vertically to six inches above the flood level rim of the fixture that it serves? This is impossible for many floor drains in basements and large garages. Aren't there allowances made for this in your code?
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I Googled "UPC floor drain venting, and got several hits. This one explains the special considerations given for floor drains as opposed to other plumbing fixtures "http://www.psdmagazine.com/ASPE_memberpdf / Jul_Aug_03/70-71.pdf". The point is that while this is acceptable for a floor drain, it'd be unacceptable for a bathtub.
I really do wish I had a copy of the UPC from 1974. I am totally serious when it said "floor drains need not be vented."
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Mike the golden rule in all of plumbing is "trap seals shall be protected". The DWV system is based on this concept. The design of a DWV system is not only based on the plumbing code (although you could but you would be limited in your design), the code only governs that the min. standard is achieved. Wouldn't life suck if everyone, everyday strived to just do the minimum required to get by.
Well thats where the plumbing field is headed, correction, it's there already. At least here in Arizona and the South West, trust me it's not Purdy, really sad. Lack of education, work ethic, workmanship, nada.
Funny how this is all sponsored and accepted by the same people who now write the plumbing codes. The contractors insist on quick fixes, cheap labor and cheap material.
Hell nothing needs a vent anymore just slap one of these gismo's here and there and youre done. Anyone can do it, you don't even have to speak English, and it comes with pictures.
The real plumber/ True Master is becoming a thing of the past, his role has changed, he is no longer the guy who designs/ or has final say over the young engineers who now know everything because it's been dumb down to an easier level. He now spends his time trying to explain to the young talented engineer why his design will only work on paper and not in real life. This will be valuable information the young engineer can use when it becomes his turn to write the new codes.
I'm not bitter, just disgusted. I actually relocated down here a few years ago to teach plumbing in the construction trades under a federal grant. Turned out to be as popular as a Tim Horton's at a desert rest stop.
kenny b
Oh by the way, 2" trap arm is 8' IPC, 5.NPC
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On May 17, 3:16 am, snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.net wrote:

We are in agreement. I always understood that floor drains often fell into a special category, since they're often located in the middle of basements and garages where there are no walls close enough to vent them in a normal way. Now that this fellow is going to make it a bathtub drain, there will be a wall very close by. That's why the original advice was to but a conventional vent in.
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