wiring question Knob and Tube

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Anyone fighting the K&T issue.
How old is you car? Appliances in home?
Funny how folks think nothing of repacing vehicle every 5 years but spaze about upgrading and maintaing pro0bably the biggest investment they have their home/
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People generally replace things when they no longer function properly or as originally intended. Unlike appliances and automobiles, wiring systems have no moving parts. a better analogy might be an antique vase or painting, which if kept in the proper environment should last a very long time. Some old wiring systems, including K&T are not in good working order and should be replaced. Some have been modified in ways that make them dangerous, and should be replaced. Some are in perfectly good working condition, and can be left to do what they've been doing

Anyone fighting the K&T issue.
How old is you car? Appliances in home?
Funny how folks think nothing of repacing vehicle every 5 years but spaze about upgrading and maintaing pro0bably the biggest investment they have their home/
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RBM wrote:

I wish I was that smart. The link came Phil Munro in a post to this newsgroup about a half year ago.
The other link Phil posted is: http://www.maine.gov/pfr/ins/hearing_2003-13680.htm which is the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because tne insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".
But I'm sure this is all made irrelevant by hallerb's voluminous records of fires caused by K&T wiring.
-- bud--
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Thanks, I'm scarping this one too. One of the things that left an impression on me when I first started working in the electrical field in 72', was how much work it was to install some of these old methods and materials, how meticulously these guys worked, and how well some equipment, including K&T held up over time. Here in downstate NY, we have four seasons, cold, hot, wet, damp, all the factors that would tend to break down and destroy this stuff, but I've rarely seen it in less than pristine condition. Much of the K&T I've removed or disconnected over the years, had nothing to do with its condition but rather, illegal taps and splices added to it. I realize that as a non grounded system, its usefulness is limited, as are a number of less demonized wiring materials, but the knee-jerk reaction it gets, in my opinion, is not deserved. I think folks like Hallerb, react to a perceived notion, rather than anything based in fact, then invent the fires, otherwise there would be substantial documentation to back up that claim

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RBM wrote:

I agree completely.
Over the years I have run across 1 failed K&T connection - a "cold" solder joint from the start.
-- bud--
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splder detoriates over time, espically if the joint gets hot.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Solder was used for a long time before wirenuts. I have see only 2 failures. Both were "cold" joints (defective) when they were made.
But I eagerly await your documentation. You can just include it with your documentation of K&T fires.
-- bud--
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HOW DOES ONE INSPECT EVERY JOINT that are buried in walls, mostl likely behind lathe and plaster"?
Is living without grounds a good idea?
have you seen insulation detoriate with time?
I have it failed in a cieling mounted light here and could of easily burned down our home.
how old is your vehicle?
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You have conviced me euthanasia is a good idea.
um...er.. just curious hallerb - how old are you?
-- bud--
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I am 50:(
My POINT, people think nothing of replacing their vehicle every 5 years or so....... at a lifetime cost of how many hundreds of thousands of dollars?
But get their panties all ruffled up over investing 5 grand for a safe, efficent, modern, on the biggest thing they own their home. That just happens to appreciate in value.
somehow this doesnt add up, perhaps its me?
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The problem with most of your "points" are that you group everyone and everything into the same mold. "All" people don't neglect their houses, "All" K&T is not 100 years old, and in flames, "All" insurance companies won't insure houses with... and all this from a person that believes and posts that FPE panels and breakers are fire hazards and posts the typical " the sky is falling" rant, regarding them... but lives with one in his own home!!! You need to straighten out your own priorities. How old is your car?

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have 2005 cobalt and 2 late 90s caravans. had first estimate this week for new main service. Must be rid of FPE panel but thinking of adding back up NG generator easier doing it all at once.
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Not everyone fits this mold. My car is 15 years old, for example. I plan on keeping it as long as it's reliable.
On the other hand, people who *do* change their car every few years are not doing it because they rationally decide they need that new car. They're doing it because of ego, or status, or something not very rational.

Replacing the wiring in the house isn't going to be the same sort of visible change as buying a new car. It's money spent on something intangible, so they may well feel differently about it.
The problem with your argument is that you're complaining that people aren't making what to you is an obviously rational choice (replacing K&T), using people who buy cars irrationally as your example people.
    Dave
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On Mar 11, 3:31�am, snipped-for-privacy@cs.ubc.ca (Dave Martindale) wrote:

my point is that while in a lifetime most folks can easily spend 100s of thousdands of dollars on new cars, while penny pinching 5 grand for the most important investment of their life.
cars depreciate while homes appreciate.
but wiring isnt sexy, cant be seen and most people only care about whats visible:(
In the lifetime of the K&T home how many paint, remodels, new carpet, furniture $$$ have likely been spent?
probably way times more $ than the cost of a rewire...........
my wife is a see the bucks spent, myself I prefer stuff runs well.
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And you're entire statement is based on the false pretense that house wiring needs to be replaced at some predetermined interval. I think "most people" believe their house wiring is safe, or they would repair or replace it. Age alone does not make wiring bad or dangerous. Each building's infrastructure should be looked when purchased and repairs made as necessary

my point is that while in a lifetime most folks can easily spend 100s of thousdands of dollars on new cars, while penny pinching 5 grand for the most important investment of their life.
cars depreciate while homes appreciate.
but wiring isnt sexy, cant be seen and most people only care about whats visible:(
In the lifetime of the K&T home how many paint, remodels, new carpet, furniture $$$ have likely been spent?
probably way times more $ than the cost of a rewire...........
my wife is a see the bucks spent, myself I prefer stuff runs well.
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There shouldn't be any "joints" within the walls.
--
Steve Barker




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wrote:

soldered, no metal boxes, impossible to really inspect wiring.
A overheated joint from overload or solder failure can overheat and start a fire in a wall, with wood lathe a bad fire can result.the wiring goes thru ceramic tubes in walls, I have perrsonally seen overheated failing joints, cracked tube, whats really bad is you cant see things.
adding insulation is a known hazard, the wiring current ratings are designed around free air circulation.
now add in K&T your lucky to have ONE outlet in most rooms, so the occupants use extension cords, increasing the risk of tripping or a fire caused by damaged extension cords.
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OH, and adding insulation is NOT a known hazard. It was an assumed one, and has never manifested itself. I can see cloth romex being much more dangerous.
--
Steve Barker




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Yeah Bud, how old is your vehicle!!! Sometimes it's like talking to a stump
wrote:

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RBM wrote:

Well, my "new" car is 19 years old and my "old" car is 52 years old, but I guess I'm "unusual." :)
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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