WHERE does weed killer get INTO the plant (leaves? roots? stem? mechanism?)

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wrote:

I see you suffer from WDS (Wal-Mart Derangement Syndrome) and quite possibly an idiot as well...I suspect both....Crawl back under your bridge troll....
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On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:06:15 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

Spray vegetation killers like Roundup contain glyphosate and a toxic surfactant. The surfactant helps spread the glyphosate on the plants' exterior for maximum effect. Granulated weed killers work systemically from the root. It's important not to saturate the ground when using a spray vegetation killer around vegetation you don't want destroyed because it can easily leech into the soil and also become a systemic poison for wanted vegetation. So a fine spray just enough to dampen the vegetation is all that is needed with glyphosate-based spray vegetation control. I always mix 2 a two gallon sprayer with concentrate Roundup refills each year. These are designed to refill your Roundup 1 gallon pump sprayer. My sprayer is capable of delivering a fine mist, coarse spray or stream and the wand can be held low just above the target vegetation. Be sure to spray on a calm day or in the morning when wind is usually calm.
If you are using a lawn weed spray that just kills weeds be sure to wait for the weeds to emerge as this spray also acts upon the surface of the weed. Make sure you plan the spray so that it does not rain for 2 days so the chemicals have time to get absorbed. This is also true for vegetation killer sprays regardless of what the manufacturer guaranties. Finally keep lawn weed spray away from flowers/flowering plants and vegetables.
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Jeff The Drunk wrote:

That's confusing toxicity of the surfactant with effectiveness as the herbicidal agent--it isn't effective at all as part of the herbicide; it's purpose is simply to serve as a surfactant to counteract surface tension of water and wet the foliage thereby promoting takeup.
...

Glyphosate breaks down and/or attaches very quickly in the soil which renders it ineffective. Also, since its action is only via enzyme interaction at active growing points within the plant it is not, therefore, effective as a pre-emergent herbicide.
--
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On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:23:15 -0500, dpb wrote:

It looks like the glyphosate can be injected into the trunk and it (somehow magically) is "absorbed" by the leaves (but how?).
After getting inside the plant (via the trunk or leaves), it seems to be transported to "growing points", where the glyphosate mimics an enzyme therby screwing up that catalytic reaction.
But, WHY/HOW would a plant absorb the glyphosate in the first place? What mechanism does it use to take in the poison?
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On Apr 25, 1:06pm, Elmo <dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied- Address.invalid> wrote:

"This product moves through the plant from the point of foliage<>"

Osmosis.
"Annual weeds are easiest to control when they are small. Best control of most perennial weeds is obtained when treatment is made at late growth stages approaching maturity. Refer to the ANNUAL WEEDS, PERENNIAL WEEDS and WOODY BRUSH AND TREES RATE TABLES for recommendations for specific weeds."

"For best results, spray coverage should be uniform and complete. Do not spray weed foliage to the point of runoff."
"FOR PRODUCT INFORMATION OR ASSISTANCE IN USING THIS PRODUCT, CALL TOLL-FREE, 1-800-332-3111. 2. IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY INVOLVING THIS HERBICIDE PRODUCT, OR FOR MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, CALL COLLECT, DAY OR NIGHT, (314)-694-4000." http://www.umt.edu/sentinel/roundup_label.pdf -----
- gpsman
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On 4/25/2010 12:06 PM, Elmo wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate
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On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:26:53 -0500, [SMF] wrote:

"It is absorbed through foliage and translocated to growing points."
But, WHY does a plant absorb the poison when the plant normally doens't absorb water from its leaves.
IIRC, a plant absorbs water from the roots and transpires that water out the leaves so that nutrients flow up and sugars manufactured by the leaf flow down, with oxygen given off as a waste byproduct.
What I don't understand, if we can give a leaf a personality, is why the leaf bothers to absorb the wet chemical. What is that mechanism that makes the leaf want to absorb the poison.
Someone said osmosis, which might be right ... in that the concentration of the glyphosate is greater on the outside of the leaf than on the inside and the cell membranes allow the stuff through ... maybe it's that simple. Maybe not.
That's why I'm asking.
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In typed:

Reading the labels on the containers almost always tells you the answers you're looking for. Then if needed, go to Google with the terms you now gained as helpers for the search. There is no single answer as different products work in different ways and with different chemicals.
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http://tinyurl.com/mdfp4b
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On Apr 25, 12:06pm, Elmo <dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied- Address.invalid> wrote:

As others said its the leaves, and if all you have are leafless stumps you are wasting the roundup spraying, dont the roundup instructions state this, to spray leaves, then it must be left to do its jobs which takes maybe weeks, or its not dead.
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On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:52:24 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote:

But what is the mechanism that makes leaves "intake" (absorb, adsorb, injest, osmosis, etc.) the poison.
Why would a leaf, which is an excretion organ of the plant for liquids (transpiration) and gases (outgassing) ... why would that outgassing leaf INTAKE the poison?
The water comes up the roots and out the leaves. Why would the leaves intake the liquid poison?
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On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:31:34 +0000 (UTC), Elmo

Some large trees in foggy costal areas get their water from the air through their leaves. This was explained in a National Geographic documentary on the costal area between Northern California and Oregon. The molecules of poisons contained in weed and vegetation killers travel the same route as chemicals in the leaves dispersed through the plant after photosynthesis occurs in the leaves .
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Spray the stuff in your eyes for about 1 hour...or until you fall down.
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On Apr 25, 4:31pm, Elmo <dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied- Address.invalid> wrote:

They also take in, they breath so poison enters through the leaf and affects the whole plant root and all.
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I can't answer _why_ they take it in, just accept the _fact_ that they do.
BUT: Quit wasting your roundup - it works if applied properly.
1. On green growing things ONLY. Spray on the ground is a waste and does nothing.
2. Spray on leaves.
3. Spraying on stubs after cutting is not going to be very effective although I will paint the stump of a tree I don't want sprouting with pure Round UP. Don't know if that works for sure but it makes me feel better.
4. After spraying WAIT. Minimum of 10 days. That is abotu the earliest that any damage will be seen and not unusual for 2 weeks.
Most of the complaints "roundup doesn't work" is because people don't wait _for_ it to work. The newer products commonly also contain stuff that will make the leaves wilt. That is to satisfy the "it doesn't work" brigade and is probably cutting the effectiveness of the glypsophate somewhat.
Harry K
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Sorry, grabbed the wrong post. Meant for Elmo.
Harry K
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Elmo wrote:

Osmosis.
Leaves are excretion organs? Haven't heard of leaves taking in CO2?

Same reason your body would if you get it on your skin.

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On Apr 25, 2:31pm, Elmo <dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied- Address.invalid> wrote:

I posted this to Ransley by mistake. Repeating it here to be sure you see it.
---------------------------------------------------------

5. Spraying it on the ground is an outright waste. It has zero residual effect and is nuetrallized almost upon contact with the ground. Might as well just dump the stuff down the drain for all the good spraying on the ground will do.

--------------------------------------------------------
Harry K
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Elmo wrote:

The label will give you the simplest answer. Bear in mind that herbicides have different modes of action. Pre-emergents, used for crab grass-type weeds (atrazine, etc.) are taken up by roots. Timing is critical.
Broadleaf herbicides, like Weed B Gone, are taken in through the leaves. It's been a while, but Weed B Gone worked wonders on the weeds in our southern lawn. There are lots of combinations and mixtures sold these days, and a lot of overuse because people don't maintain lawns properly or apply chemicals properly. The instructions for WBG are important....weeds must be actively growing, don't apply if rain expected, etc. When we used it on our lawn, we fertilized a couple of weeks in advance so everything was growing and avoided using it during hottest weather when grass is stressed.
With tough weeds, it is easier and safer to cut the plant down, wait for new growth to appear and then use Roundup or similar vegetation killer. One especially nasty weed is asparagus fern...one of many house plants that idiots like to plant outdoors...that is invasive in Florida. It has loads of berries and huge, tuberous roots that make it impossible to dig up when it takes root in hedges. I crawled around under our hedges, cut the asparagus fern and ivy to the ground, waited until they had some new growth and sprayed with Roundup. Using this method, you don't hit the desirable plants and you don't need to use much Roundup. Logic tells one that a plant can't thrive without leaves and if you cover all of it's leaves with suitable herbicide, it will be effective. Some tougher plants, especially stuff with waxy leaves like ivy, are more susceptible this way because the new growth is more tender but might require another application.
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