True, they are precharged to a standard pressure, don't recall off the top of my head what mine was precharged to. 30 psi precharge is good for a pump cut-on pressure of around 32 psi. Precharge should actually be 27-28 psi for a 30/50 pressure switch if 30 psi is the actual cut-on pressure.
The reason for suggesting raising the pressure is that the OP is using, IIRC,
42 psi as the cut-on pressure, which means that he needs somewhere around 40 psi precharge. Precharge pressure should be a couple-three psi below cut-on pressure, so it depends on what your cut-on pressure is exactly what your precharge pressure needs to be for optimal pump operation.
Later, Mike (substitute strickland in the obvious location to reply directly)
I'm not a plumber, so I was just commenting on the factory precharge as listed on my tank. As a matter of fact, I do not know what the working pressure is on my tank. It is 20 years old and has never been tested or serviced, unless that was done by the plumber that installed it 20 years ago. I should have it looked at, although it is working fine, as far as I can tell. For one thing, the pressure guage is broken (needle sitting at 0), and has been like that for many years. My wife's nephew is a plumber and has installed our Central A/C, services our boiler, and does our other plumbing jobs when needed. The last time he was here, I mentioned the pressure guage being broken and he said he would replace it, but you know how it is with getting relatives to do jobs for you. :-) I also just found out the tank name was Well-X-Trol, not Well-Trol (the X is stylized into the logo).
Well, since we stated having this problem a few days ago, pressure in the shower is way too low, and just barely enough. If one thing is using water and you try to use something else, you get only a tiny amount of pressure. For instance if a toilet is filling, and you try to use the sink, only a small amount of water comes out. This problem just started a few days ago.
I did have that valve closed.
We're OK for now, but not great. I'll probably have someone come look at it soon, since we seem to need a new tank. I looked at them at Home Depot yesterday, and one that looks like the size we have costs $240.
Yes, the pump cuts on at 42 PSI, according to the gauge in the water line. If I put my tire gauge on the air at the top of the tank, it shows 46PSI. Should I lower that to 40?
So what I need to know is if the precharge pressure should be measured with the tank empty or with water in it (assuming that the bladder has burst). If I pump it up to 40PSI w/o water, the air pressure is going to be very high after water is pumped in.
You frequently see better prices (and higher quality) at plumbing supply shops, and farm supply stores. If there's a TSC store in your area, it's probably worth your while to pick up the phone and call them.
Without water.. The cut-on doesn't care if its 46PSI of air or 46PSI of water... That's the whole point of having the air in there, it can compress to come up with the upper limit.. so you don't short cycle like you were before.
As for the shower pressure, do you have the water valve to the house fully open? Sounds like a blockage between tank and house. You'll have plenty of pressure as long as you use practically no volume.. with a valve partially open..
With that much pressure in the tank, you shouldn't have any flow problems at any outlet even using 2 at once. You have blockage somewhere after the tank or a valve that is only partly open. It is possible that the blown bag is allowing full flow into the tank and then at least partially blocking the outlet for outflow, i.e., acting like a flapper valve.
Yes, it could be. Also, with the broken bag, the volume of air in the tank is different from what it would normally be, FWIW. I plan to call a water system guy tomorrow.
Good call, Harry -- that just might be the explanation.
Ahhh, never mind calling the water system guy, just replace the stupid tank. That's what he's going to do anyway. Might as well replace it yourself and save the cost of a service call -- it isn't rocket science. Anybody who can use a wrench can replace a pressure tank.
I'm no plumber either, but have researched quite a bit on wells and their maintenance so I could do whatever necessary plumbing-wise to get water from the well to the house - the driller just drilled, installed the pump and checked it. I built the wellhouse, installed the pressure switch, tank, filter (to make sure no sand gets to the house) and the line from the wellhouse to inside the house where the plumber took over (new construction). As you may can tell, I like to take a hands-on approach .
Having the proper precharge pressure (and a large enough tank for your standard usage) just keeps pump starts to a minimum, prolonging life. All recommendations I've seen say that the precharge pressure should be 2-3 psi below the pump cut-on pressure. Since pressure switches come with a preset of
30/50 (there's a 20/40 and a high/low adjustable also IIRC), 30 psi precharge would be close to right. Your plumber, when installing the system, may have lowered the pressure in the tank a couple of psi or he could have adjusted the pressure switch to a little higher than 30 cut-on pressure - just a matter of turning a nut clockwise on the switch I have. Then again, he may have done nothing but install the equipment - it appears to have served you well no matter what the situation.
Unless you're having one of the problems below, I'd just replace the gauge and let it be.
Frequent pump cycling - Turn off water where pipe enters house, then check pressure to see if it stays steady for at least 30 minutes. Turning off water within the house eliminates pressure drops from leaky toilet valves and dripping faucets.
Yes pressure drops - Could be a leak in the pipes somewhere or water is flowing back into well when pump is off. Turn off shutoff near pump and check pressure again after a minimum of 30 minutes. If it holds steady, there's probably a leak between the wellhouse and the house (think you'd probably know if it's inside the house). If the pressure drops, the valve that your system uses to keep water from flowing back into the well is not working properly - mine is a deep well submersible pump with foot valve.
No pressure stays steady - probably hole in tank bladder - replace tank
Low pressure - check filter, screens in faucets, holes in faucet aerators and shower heads. If you have galvanized pipe and the system is old (probably is if you have galvanized), the pipes may be filled with rust and need replacing.
Replacing the pressure gauge should be a simple fix if you can operate a crescent wrench and a pair of pliers. They're available at Home Depot and Lowes pretty cheap. Just cut off the water and let off the pressure. Then use the wrench to unscrew the original gauge while holding the pipe it's screwed onto stationary with the pliers and screw on the new. Turn the water back on and you're in business. Might want to put some plumbers putty or teflon tape on the threads of the pipe the gauge screws onto.
If the pipe the gauge screws onto needs replacing also (might be full of rust), they're available at HD and Lowes too.
Later, Mike (substitute strickland in the obvious location to reply directly)
I'm thinking about that, but I don't know if I can do it. I haven't called them yet.
Hmmm... I don't even have a wrench as big as the pipe. I'm not very good at moving something that big, and I'd probably have to get a truck anyway. I'm going to do one or the other.
Perhaps you can get a buddy or a neighbor to put it in for you. It's still cheaper to buy pipe wrenches at Sears, rent a truck, and buy a couple pizzas and a case of beer for your neighbor.
If you live in central Indiana, maybe we can make a deal. :-)
Right. All it takes is two pipe wrenches and one will do if you're lucky. Just don't do what I did once and forget to empty the tank before you break the connection. :)
I see google is being very slow again as yesterday's post hasn't shown yet.
Don't be intimidated by the -size- of the tank. They weigh relatively nothing. The box they come in and any packing materials almost weigh as much as the tank. They are awkward to haul and maneuver tho due to the size.
Latest: today we drained the tank again and this time I pumped the pressure up higher with a tire pump that plugs into a cigarette lighter, and refilled the tank. Also, right now I'm bypassing a filter, which was clogged up. (I really should have checked that earlier, but I replaced it not too long ago.) The air pressure in the tank is 62 PSI.
At the moment the water pressure and flow is fine - just like it should be. I'm going to see how it holds over the next few days.
The pump is running for about 15 seconds each time. Should it be longer?
Never heard of that, and it sounds not only dumb but pointless, here is why. . . if you have a tank (no bladder ) 1/2 full w/ water and trapped (compressed ) air on top and your water outlet is on the bottom of the tank , HOW CAN THE AIR ESCAPE ? ? SOOOO WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO PUT A SPHINCTER VALVE ON ? ? ?
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