water heater vs. water heater

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Nat. Gas 40gal; A.O. Smith vs. Bradford White, both are similar in cost including installation. i currently have a A.O.Smith 40gal installed in Feb'94 but the dip tube fell apart and has been causing problems for a couple years now and the T&P valve leaks from time to time. serviceman came out yesterday and said the unit itself looks to be in great shape and the burner is working perfectly as well as the thermostat. he recommended to replace the dip tube and T&P valve, flush out the waterheater (he seemed to think this should give me at least another 6-8 years of excellent efficient use) and the hot water lines leading thru the house to get rid of anything that might have collected in the line fromthe deteriorated dip tube. the repair will cost $500.00 and the new waterheaters are $750.00. if my soldering experience was better i'd put in a new water heater myself but i don't wanna thake that chance, IMO there are times when some things are better left up tot he pros.
thanks for any input...
mike................
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Why not give it a go yorrself. T&P valve is about a $10 part. Not sure on dip tup but well under $100 for sure. A wrench and a half an hour your done. Flushing lines is draining and refilling tank and removing airtator screens from faucets and letting the water run for a while. $500 is probably a fair price for having a pro do it but I certainly wouldn't pay that knowing that parts would be less than $100 total and I could do it in under 1/2 hour.
I know a pastor who had a faulty pressure relief valve. The valve was plumbed to a drain that ran under floor. All he knew was that the floor was hot and it wasn't normally. Tile fllor on slab construction. The plumber told him he would have to jack hammer up the tile and the concrete to "fix the leak" in the hot water pipe in the slab. This was right after one of the FL hurricaines. All the trades were charging big $$$. I was doing emergency relief work, this pastor was coordinating volunteers. I fixed the water heater for about $7 in about 10 minutes with no jackhammer. It took me longer to explain to the pastor what the problem was and to get the part at Lowes than it did to fix it. Whats the point of my story? Not sure. It seemed like a weird thing to be fixing when there were hundreds of people without roofs, houses destroyed, etc. If I didn't fix it he would have paid out the nose to a hack and wouldn't have been able to focus on his responsibilities as a pastor in a disaster area. So, I guess my point is, fix it yourself if you can, have the plumber do it if you have better uses of your time and money.
Good luck.

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done.
screens
fair
that
my water heater is in my basement and the ceiling is only 84" (7'). the top of the water heater is 57" off the floor leaving only 27" of free space. the way i understand a dip tube is that (it is not rigid and semi-flexible) it runs to almost the bottom of the tank. it's 45" from top of tank to drain. so unless the dip tube is less than 35" (to fit between the joist to the subfloor) the water heater has to be tilted to give me more clearance, plus i thought the dip tube was directly under the cold water supply, which would need to be cut to get the dip tube out.
the plumbing supply service said the dip tube is between 36"and 42".
looks like i'll be going w/ a new heater unless i can find someone who can solder, besides the cold water supply line is soldered to the nipple that would let the dip tube out, unless ther e is a coupling i'm missing.
mike...........
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The thing we are talking about, I think, is an anode rod. They are not connected to the cold water supply. Just look for a big nut on top of the tank. Unscrew it, out will come the rod. Thats what needs replaced. You can bend the old one if need be to get it out. They make new ones that are like a blind persons folding cane so you can get them in there w/o tipping the tank.
If you DIY this is a very easy, no soldering required, project that would cost you probably close to $30. It will breath some life into you water heater and let you spend the $$ else where. I think it wold be a waste to get a new heater just ecause you need a new rod and valve.
Rod info... http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/water-heater-anodes.html
I doubt you need a dip tube.

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can
like
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/water-heater-anodes.html
it's the dip tube....it's been falling apart for years now. there was a big problem w/ heaters made in time i had mine installed and i misssd out on all the class action stuff to have it repaired and taken care of. so i guess it'll be a new Bradford White for us.
mike..........
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If you replace the water heater, you need to disconnect and remove the old one. If you can disconnect and remove the old one, then you can replace the dip tube, and so you don't need a new one.
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big
all
guess
my soldering experience i minimal at best and w/ my luck i would end up w/ an emergency call to a plumber anyway.
mike............
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On 1/7/2005 1:46 PM US(ET), No took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

No, they are talking about the dip tube, a plastic pipe that directs the cold water inlet to the bottom of the water heater, so it doesn't cool off the hot water at the top of the tank. They used to be made of a metallic material, but now they use plastic pipe. Some earlier plastic pipe was manufactured with materials that disintegrated when exposed to the hot water for long periods. When they disintegrated, or broke off completely in the tank, small particles clogged the faucet/showerhead/appliance screens and the hot water wasn't that hot because the cold water was no lnger being directed to the bottom of the tank and was mixing with the hot water in the top of the tank, cooling it off.

--
Bill

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Ah, OK. Dip tube, I know what it is, I would just expect an anode rod to go first. replacing dip tube would be a bit harder and probably require some soldering. Personally, I would still have at it. OP may not be as adverturesome. -B

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go
There are two ways a dip tube is installed, one is the drop in method where the shoulder of the dip tube is directly below the cold inlet and you just wedge a stick into the hole and work it out or the other kind they roll over the edge and you just take a 7/8 hole saw knock off the edge and then proceed as in the earlier case.
As far as his overhead clearance goes, the dip tube is plastic it might very well flex around enough to pop in.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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On 1/7/2005 4:08 PM US(ET), No took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

It would be a real adventure if the old tube had broken into larger pieces. There's no way they would come out of the drain valve during a flush of the tank. They may also get stuck in the drain valve preventing the closure of the valve. Even if not, the pieces would continue to disintegrate and pass through the water lines to clog the faucet screens. At least, the water would be hot with a new dip tube, but the faucet screens would require regular cleaning to allow the hot water to run from the faucets. Best to just change the whole tank.

--
Bill

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the top

space.
semi-flexible)
to
joist to

clearance,
which
who can

that
You don't need to know how to solder anymore. They now have a copper assembly where you cut the existing pipe at a convenient place, screw the new assembly onto your cold WH inlet, slide the compression fitting over the cut pipe, tighten, and you're all done. It is corrigated to bend into the shape you need also. Available where you buy water heaters.
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get out...a flexible copper line?! i guess it looks like the flex. stainless gas lines. i never heard of that. it sounds like something i might be able to deal with. thanks for the info.
mike..........
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JerseyMike wrote:

Wow!. When you get someone to put the new heater in, make sure they fix the cold and hot water lines so that the tank installs with flexible copper pipe, unless, for some silly reason your building code requires solid connections. I can't imagine soldering a cold water line directly to the tank coupling. Gotta be plumbers insurance that they make money. If it were mine, I wouldn't care what the local code says, I would cut the supply and hot water pipes and solder threaded couplings so I could use flexible pipe between the supply lines and the tank. But I understand your reluctance to do the soldering.
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(Flame lock, Whirlpool)are priced thus: 6 yr warranty $228 9 yr warranty $298 12 yr warranty $348
A few years back someone told me that the actual tanks used on the different water heaters were the same and that the extra money was only buying a longer warranty. I then called Bradford White and they confirmed that this was true. There are two dip tube designs that I know of. The cheapo is just a straight tube that goes to the bottom of the tank. A better design is one that goes to the bottom and then makes a 90 deg. turn for a few inches. It creates a swirling action that keeps the sediment stirred up and not settling in the tank bottom. Also, soldering is not rocket science. Buy a few practice pieces of copper to play with and then go for it
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I belive the biggest factor is the size of the anode. Bigger anode, longer warrantee.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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Bubba,
I think you are missing something here. $500 was the price quoted for removing and replacing the dip tube, not the installed price of a new unit. If a licenced plumber took more than 1/2 hour from arrival to invoice to swap out a dip tube I would be suprised.
I would expect something in the order of $50-$75 for the trip charge, and 1/2 an hour labor at the prevaling rate. (prob. $100 to $150 per hour.)
A dip tube is a piecr of plastic tubing 5 feet long or less with a flare on one end. If you charge the customer twice what it cost you that should still be less than $40.
So even if the OP was in a high overhead area, the price should be $200 or less.
--

Roger Shoaf



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On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 09:45:23 -0800, "Roger Shoaf"

Roger, I think you missed the post. Id point it out but you seem to have clipped the original and Im not going to look it up. Yes, $500 for a water heater diptube is ridiculous. I never said it wasnt. He had said $500 for a water heater installed was too high. Its not. Now are we clear? Bubba
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Bubba wrote:

No he isn't clear, because that is not what I said. The op said the cost for repair was $500 and the cost of a new heater was $750, but didn't indicate that that include installation.
But enough of this, you aren't believable and you don't pay attention to what people say. Your only argument is Ad Hominem and you have an obvious anger and envy problem. If you aren't just a troll, I suggest you get clinical help. I can recommend a few for your type of problem if you wish.
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unit.
and
on
or
hey guys, the $750.00 price was for supply and installation of a new 40gal Bradford White M-4 model.
mike...........
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