Using the Sewer Vent for Cable or Cat5e Run?

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Mark,
Could you please take down this link before someone emulates your installation and gets electrocuted?
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/6201_in_dryer.html
If someone connects a 220VAC 4-wire dryer with only three wires, leaving the chassis ungrounded, the chassis would become hot if one of the conductors you show running unprotected through the sharp metal edge of the case were to contact the dryer. With time and vibration owing to dryer movement, this would be a very likely scenario.
With one hand on the hot chassis, another on a sink or grounded washing machine, the current would cross their chest and could stop their heart. You might cause someone to die. Please consider that and do the responsible thing.
... Marc Marc_F_Hult www.ECOntrol.org
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:20:26 -0400, Marc_F_Hult

I noticed and corrected that safety problem just after taking those pictures. There should be a note about that on that page.
I am currently unable to verify that because of what appears to be a problem with my ISP. I expect to remove or fix that page when I get a chance.
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On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:00:18 -0500, Mark Lloyd

The page is now disabled.
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wrote:

The "professional" who wired my last house (new built for me) did one better... He wired the range swapping hot and ground. My wife never complained, but the first time I tried to cook pasta and it took forever to bring water to a boil, and could hardly keep it there, I knew something was wrong. Started measuring voltages after dinner. The leads on my DMM were long enough to measure the 120v between chassis of range and kitchen faucet. Which meant my arms were easily long enough.
When called him, the electrician was wondering if he could barge in on us at 10pm that night (Sunday). I let him off the hook and just swapped the wires myself. There were other problems with the wiring in that house. I wonder if he was as drunk as the finish carpenter who pounded the base molding thru the drywall rather than cut to length?
I moved into this house some years later. Shortly afterwards, I tested all the outlets. Found some reversed hot and neutral, and some open ground. Now perhaps a homeowner messed them up during the 20 years before I moved in. But with all the coats of paint and loose prongs in most of the outlets in the house, I'm pretty sure it was original work.
sdb
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That is not correct, friend. Plenum cable is allowed to be used in plenum air spaces. These are usually found in the area above a drop ceiling in office complexes. That's about the only place where plenum cable is allowed other than as normal in-wall wiring. It can't be run in air ducts or plumbing pipes, including your vent stack.

As others have already mentioned, there may be enough space between the pipe and the cut-out area where it passes through the floor. If the home is older the cut-out is usually square, leaving lots of space to fish a cable. Newer construction is often tighter since the plumbers use hole saws to cut s snugger opening and it may even be fire-caulked.
Other places where you may find an open chase include the various "wet walls" which have pipes for toilets, siomks and bathrooms. Sometimes a home will have one closet located above another. If you're lucky enough to have that layout you can easily open the wall inside an upstairs closet, drill down into the one below and so forth to reach the basement. A small reach hole inside the closet wall can be covered with a single-gang plate, providing easy access should you ever need to make changes. Accessing the top of the wall from an unfinished attic is a snap.
At times when installing in multi-story homes I've deliberately selected a place low on a hallway wall, directly outside the master bedroom for a flush mounted siren speaker. Installing a keypad in the bedroom side of the wall, several feet above the speaker makes it easy to fish from the attic down. Another speaker goes in the wall on the first floor, just above the baseboard. This arrangement makes it easy to reach into the wall with a drill and open a 3/4" hole from attic to basement. Note that this works best if the wall is load-bearing since the wall on the upper floor will be directly above the one below.
There are numerous ways to run new cable in existing homes. Sometimes you just need to get a little creative in your planning but with a little patience and a modicum of tool skills it's not difficult.
Regards, Robert L Bass Bass Home Electronics DIY Alarm and Home Automation Store www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you can't use a "pre-N" or "N" wireless network? They are getting faster and stronger all the time.
I just put a "G" repeater in my mother's garage because the signal she gets from my brother's house was a little weak. Works really well.
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Data rate and security are two reasons copper isn't dead.
-- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net /
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Neither one is a big deal for 99.44% of home systems, though I see a lot of open networks around. I have mine configured for encryption, only listen to my laptops' MACs, and doesn't broadcast its SSID. 54Mbps is faster than my cable modem. Good 'nuff.
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And if you're using WEP, someone can break all that in minutes. MAC's can be sniffed and cloned simply with passive sniffers, SSID is included in every packet sent across the air even if the access point doesn't beacon. If you're using WPA-PSK and aren't using a very complex passphrase, that too can be cracked using freely available dictionary attack tools. At least you're not among the open network drones though--kuds on that.

For you and your websurfing use. FWIW, I'm willing to be you're not getting anywhere near 54Mbps from upstairs to downstairs.
Start pushing video or a large volume of photos across to a network drive on a home network like many media creators do, or appreciate how trivially most encryption can be broken if you work with sensitive data in a home business, the case for copper becomes even more compelling.
Wireless: just because you can doesn't mean you should.
In short, I wouldn't begrudge anyone wanting to run cat5 cable.
Best Regards, -- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net /
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Todd H. wrote:

I agree, copper is not dead. There's a time and a place for it. But there is also a time and a place for wireless. I run wire to 2 computers and wireless to a third (and the kid's PSP).
If the OP is working from home and has sensitive data, wire's probably a good idea. Also if he's downloading movies and playing games. But if it's just "check your email" or sending things to a printer, wireless is probably okay.
To some extent is also depends of where he lives. I live in a small, rural community and a neighbor just put in a wireless network. Until then, there was never another wireless network in the area and little chance anyone would be trying to crack mine (but I still use security). If the OP is in the middle of a city near a university, it's a whole other story.
I was just curious about it and thought I would suggest another option that might work or it might not.
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The cable can be sniffed at the street too.

It does. The router is pretty much right over the family room though.

Security overkill for 99.44%. We use wireless at work too, where they are a tad more sensitive.

Just because they can, doesn't mean they will.

Begrudge those wanting cat-5, no. Begrudge the Chicken-Littleites, yes.
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That's security through hope. :-) But to each their own.
-- Todd H. http://www.toddh.net /
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That's the issue I have, and why I'm planning for more copper. I can stream mp3 over 802.11b with no problem. Video was iffy, so I switched to 801.11g. No video is pretty decent, but I find myself wanting to copy 1gb to 8gb files between systems. Time for copper.
Before purchasing this place I had plans to build and wire oodles of cat-5 everywhere. In spite of the advances in wireless, for anyone building or extensive remodeling I _strongly_ recommend copper in the walls. Wireless is great for its niche, OK most times, but copper is great most times so put it in if you can! It is trivial to add wireless if you want to try it or need it for its niche. Copper if you can.
sdb
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ZsdbUse1+noZs snipped-for-privacy@Zbigfoot.Zcom.invalid says...

Are you going GbE? I don't see the huge gain from 54Mb to 100Mb. My laptop and desktop have GbE, so all I need is a switch. ...but I don't see a real need.

I'd put wires where there would be computers and in the basement and such. I don't think I'd wire the living room and dining room though. We're thinking about building a house (for retirement) soon, and would likely put in conduit to the basement so the wires can be replaced. Same for the entertainment center.
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That should have been "Now video is pretty decent." :)

The difference is HUGE between wireless 54Mb and 100baseT ethernet. For one, you really get 100Mbit on the ethernet. For another, you get full-duplex. I've never seen 54Mb come even close to 54Mb thruput in any realistic scenario. Since it is only half-duplex (only one side can transmit at any given moment) about the best you get is 25Mb. Then consider that the collision domain is _every_system_ on the wireless net and your thruput goes way down. I'm actually running one 'G' and two 'B' nets at home, using all three non-colliding channels, just to seperate traffic. :(
I'm contemplating GigE. Like you, all I need is a switch. When I see a deal I can't refuse, I'll jump. The rest of the infrastructure is ready.

Wire dual runs of Cat5 or better to anyplace you might want TV or audio. Digital media distribution is the future, and Cat-5 means you can get not only the content, but with power-over-ethernet (POE) simple devices won't even need a power cable. But your entertainment center definitely needs network connectivity.
I'd recommend you consider wiring dual runs pretty darn near everywhere.

Definitely.
In the future I expect something far better than 802.11 for wireless, or else networking will be wired in homes the way power was wired 50 years ago -- outlets in every room, on most walls, but never enough or in the right place. Unlike power which had to be codified to force outlets every 12 feet and on every wall, the haphazard approach for networking will probably be good enough, since 802.11 can fill in the gaps.
sdb
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On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:25:51 -0600, sylvan butler

Not quite. There's always SOME overhead. Also, the computer and OS limit the speed you can get. Still expect much greater speed than with wireless.
BTW, I definitely do get more than 54Mbps on a wired network.

Also, you can expect MUCH LOWER range than advertised (you don't have ideal conditions at your house). When the signal gets weaker, speed goes down even more.
I'd still use wireless, but only when necessary (like with a laptop that's moved around a lot). Never as a substitute for an ethernet cable.

I seem to heard that 3 is about the most non-colliding channels you can get.

If it doesn't cost too much more than 100Mbps equipment.

One run is probably enough (you can always add a switch there if you need to). Of course, when you're putting in that one, it wouldn't be much harder to run two instead.

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Well, a switch alone won't help you. It doesn't do you any good to have a bunch of gigE workstations if you only have a single gigE link into the server. It's often cheaper and equally effective to continue using 100BaseT/Full Duplex on the workstations and multiple connections into the servers using 100BaseT or gigE. The key being able to get as much traffic in/out of the server devices as workstation demands would require. None of this matters, however, if you don't have switches that can truly handle that sort of throughput. It's far better to spend your money on good switches than it is to waste it on workstation cards. Fast cards ain't worth squat if the switch can't keep up.
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Bill, this is my HOME. The network is usually under 10% utilization. But when I want to move a big file, it takes too long. A gE switch WILL help, because there will only be significant traffic between two systems.

Gee, sounds like someone forgot "alt.home.repair" and "comp.home.automation" is mostly about HOME... I do have two fileservers on my home network, but I suspect that puts me into a distinct minority. :)
sdb
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On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:29:07 -0600, sylvan butler
wrote:

Sylvan,
I installed fiber hubs in basement and 2nd floor because of repeated lightning damage to 100baseT and RS-xxx systems with the welcome side-effect of gigabit transfer rates. If you can/want to physically run fiber, check out eBay.
Search " NETGEAR FS518" These have 2 gigabit fiber + 16 100BT, sell for about $30 and are OK but have noisy small diameter fans and do increase overall UPS power needs. There's a bunch up for sale now.
http://search-completed.ebay.com/NETGEAR-FS518_W0QQcatrefZC5QQfbdZ1QQfc lZ3QQfisZ2QQflocZ1QQfromZR14QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfssZ0QQftrtZ1QQft rvZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsaaffZafdefaultQQsacatZQ2d1QQsacqyopZgeQQsacurZ0 QQsadisZ200QQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsofocusZbsQQsorefinesearchZ1
I got a couple of these and also two four-port D-Link DGS-3204 gigabit fiber managed hubs for a bit more. There are couple up for sale now. I may put one of mine in my upcoming 'porch sale'. Same caveat about noise and power consumption. Otherwise also flawless in my experience.
HTH ... Marc Marc_F_Hult www.ECOntrol.org
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wrote:

a
Well good for you. For others reading the thread is may help them to understand some network design issues. Just adding expensive gigE cards and wiring (not just the copper, but the wall plates too). That and unless you've got a fileserver that's capable of truly handling gigE throughput it's going to be wasted money.

the
Oh please, give it a rest.
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