Cat5e or what?

[T i m]

Hi All,

A mate is in the process of fitting out a new shop and has asked me what he should do about running network points around the shop.

He electrician is going to do it but I'm not sure what to advise re the network cabling.

He doesn't need much bandwidth as it will only be a bit of web browsing, possibly some cloud based POS and remote access to his CCTV so would Cat5e still be ok or should is Cat6 as easy / straightforward to use and more 'future proof please?

FWIW, maximum run from router / switch to socket will be about 20m (as the cable runs).

Cheers, T i m

p.s. And assuming he doesn't need loads, where would be the easiest place for him to order / get it all from (cable and sockets etc) please?

p.p.s. My house is still mainly the Cat3 I installed a long time ago which was the 'in thing' over Cheapernet! ;-)

[Andy Burns]

cat5e is good up to gigabit, but can't see him needing faster than

10/100 really, if he goes for cat6 the cable needs larger band radius and is thicker, also outlets and patch panels may be more expensive.

[David]

I would go Cat6 just because of the higher theoretical bandwidth and the fact that the cost of installation is likely to be far higher than the cost of the cable and the sockets so you might as well put in the "latest greatest" for future proofing.

I think the usual suspects such as CPC stock everything needed.

HTH

Dave R

[Malcolm Race]

His present requirements may well be covered by Cat5ebut as the main cost is in the installation rather than the hardware, why not future proof

Malcolm

[whisky-dave]

Maybe not everyone will live into the future. For most things I can use wireless as I assume most can. Sure if I regually transfer GB of files I'd go for hardwire. if you gonna truely future proof don't use enthernet cable of any kind use fibra optic cable.

[Andy Burns]

If you do that, you'll spend a fortune on fibre capable switches, SFPs, and NICs or media converters ... unless there's an identified need for

10 gigabit speed (and I'd be amazed if the owner was just asking a mate if there were) I'd stick with cat5e.

[whisky-dave]

I would too I wouldn't bother with cat6, but then again I wouldn't bother with cat5e either. Unless I know I rely need fast speed or was planing on playing games I'd use wireless throughout. Brought one of these TP link things to go into another room. How many people need 1GB or even 500MB ?

Maybe I'll wait until quantum cat cables come about.

[John Rumm]

CAT5e will be adequate for most applications for some time to come. If well cabled you can get 10Gig ethernet down it although with length limitations (probably no more than 40m). Having said that 10G ethernet does not seem popular yet, is still pricey and very power hungry.

CAT6 is more expensive, harder to work with etc, and is unlikely to buy much advantage in this application.

Stick in more cables than he needs - even if they are not all terminated up to start with. Always run at least a pair of cables to any one point.

These folks are good:

Failing that TLC have a small range of network stuff.

Get the Excel branded patch panels and CAT5 full depth modules (needs the bevelled edge face plate for depth) - they are a little bit more expensive than budget ones, but so much nice and faster to wire.

(from simple things like being marked with only the TIA-568B colour coding, so you are not always stopping to think which set of colours you are matching, to the more subtle like the way the CAT5 wires push into the terminals with a nice positive feel and stay put before punching down).

Make sure you order proper copper CAT5e and not CCA or CCS.

Handy for pulling through some CAT5e ;-)

[John Rumm]

I would say for domestic stuff pretty much everyone. There is no real cost disadvantage going with 1G ethernet, and it will be standard on any PC less than say 5 years old. For small business use, in some cases its less important, but there is still no point not.

In many cases Wireless is a right PITA (patchy coverage, drop outs, slow downs at peak times when all the neighbours are making heavy use of it etc).

10/100 is not always fast enough if you are doing much streaming of video content over a home network, it also can't keep pace with the data serving rate from even a basic NAS box. Lastly if you do need to move bulk data (say a 5GB image of a DVD), then you really notice the difference in transfer rate.

[Peter Parry]

Almost anything but NOT cable labelled CCA or CCS (Copper Coated Aluminium, Copper Coated Steel). The electrician will probably go for one of these as they are the cheapest but either are likely to cause problems in the future.

[spuorgelgoog]

because in 5-10 years time the shop could be used for a completely different purpose and be refitted accordingly

Purpose built offices tend to stay purpose built offices

Owain

[Eednud]

Stick in branded Cat 6 Cable such as Excel, if the runs are only 20m, one 305m box of Cat6 Wont be much cheaper than Cat5e.

If he is worried about cost, then terminate it with Cat5e Outlets and Patch Panels, else use Cat6 Accessories. At least then the infrastructure is in place.

Cat 5e will give Gb speed and Cat 6 will give 10Gb up to 40m between Switch and Outlet.

Don't bother with fibre, it is expensive to terminate and so is the kit you need to get it working.

I would say a properly installed Branded Cat5e solution installed and certified with a proper tester, by a qualified engineer, will be better than some no brand Cat6 Cable, stuck in by a Sparky, who then at most will do a quick wire map check on the cabling.

[John Rumm]

IIRC, CAT5e should do 10G up to 40m, and 100m for CAT6

True, but if all the sparky is doing is pulling the wires in, then it should still be a workable install.

[Eednud]

That is incorrect. Cat 5e is only certified to 1Gb.

If Cat6 does 10Gb up to 100m, then what speeds do you think you get with Cat6A?

[Adrian]

Can I just ask a stupid question here...

While there are times and places where the difference between 10Gb and

100Gb and 40m or 100m are relevant, is this even vaguely one of them?

Just to go back to the original question...

...

[T i m]

Thanks for the reality check Adrian. ;-)

Yes, whilst I agree there may be a time when people often need 'more speed', I can't see this particular installation being one of them. So, I think it makes sense (to me anyway) to stick with the more bread_and_butter range of kit as I can't see anything better being appreciated. I'm also sure that any complication, cost or delay that could be avoided by going for a more 'common' solution wouldn't be appreciated either.

Anyway, loads of interesting thoughts and useful information as usual so thanks to all who replied. ;-)

'Muggins' will probably be the one connecting it all up but I don't mind as I (still) enjoy that sort of thing (and it will save my Krone tool from going rusty).

Depending on the number of 'ends' they need (and I like the idea of 'doubling up' on any cable runs) we might use a small patch panel at the router end and if not, just a few double RJ45 sockets.

All he needs (for the sparks who also does his CCTV stuff so isn't a complete stranger to running 'other' cables) is the actual UTP cable and so I'll make sure they get full fat copper. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[John Rumm]

I made no mention of what its certified to do, only what it achieves in actual testing. Indeed the bandwidth requirement (500MHz) is well beyond CAT5E official specs at 100MHz. However certified CAT5E must perform better than the minimum spec to pass certification, so there is some headroom. If you trade that off against maximum segment length, then you will arrive at a very restricted length below which 10G will run over

*some* CAT5E segments.

e.g.

To be fair I was being sloppy, and lumping all cat6 variants together. You will need 6A for the full 100m. CAT6 will perform better than CAT5E but not dramatically so. However since I have no experience using CAT6 in practice, I can't tell you what can be squeezed out of it. Reports I have read suggest that 60m is the top end of what is realistic.

[John Rumm]

Since some people have suggested installing CAT6 and above, it is perhaps important to highlight what extra that will achieve. Hopefully most will see the answer (from the OPs stated requirements) ought to be "none".

In a domestic environment, I would not bother with CAT6 or above for data applications, however it does have a use with a balun either end, re-purposed to run HD video over it where the better cable will give longer distances:

[PeterC]

Now you've given a certain purveyor of Very Expensive Cables the idea, start saving!

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , John Rumm escribió:

Agreed. The media PC on the TV here copes with the data coming from the NAS over a powerline link, just. The powerline inter-adapter link is

180Mbps but the ethernet ports are 100Mbps. The media PC really needs gig.

I'll have to run a cable, was hoping to be able to avoid it.

+1. makes a big difference to my daily backups.