Storm Shelters are in the News

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wrote:

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

poured re-enforced concrete bunker above ground is vulnerable. Anything underground is reasonably protected and safe from storm danger.
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 16:50:54 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That is pretty much what a FEMA shelter is, a concrete bunker.
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On Thu, 23 May 2013 02:00:33 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Where do they pump the water?
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

What water? The FEMA pub lists a number of designs, most above ground. For underground ones water isn't much of an issue if it's build properly, waterproofing techniques have come a long way.
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On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:16:12 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

These are above grade
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wrote:

I know of one design (no longer made AFAIK) where that would be true. I know of dozens of others where there is full masonry but for 1/8" spots where the ties connect the two sides. I've also seen video of 2x4 being shot at 200 MPH and doing no damage.
That said, no home it tornado "proof". Roofs, garage doors, windows can still be broken open and you will get damage. The advantage afterward is the rebuildability and the fact that it did not collapse on top of you. You still have to avoid debris getting blown through a window unless you have some sort of coverage for them that is capable of withstanding a violent storm.
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The best storm home would be a shot crete dome, basically an inverted swimming pool. I met a guy north of Tampa who has one
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And, with FEMA's track record, would you bet your life on their information? . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
FEMA has the plans
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That's just some reporter trying to fill time. It is wrong... In the north, the freeze line is deep enough so that , in order to have a stable foundation, a cellar excavation is necessary. In Oklahoma, there is no freeze line, so the foundation can lie on top of the terrain. A cellar can be built, but it isn't necessary for a stable foundation, and the cost is greater. It isn't done very much . If the soil is clay, power equipment will take care of it easily. The soils are variable throughout the state... The reporter isn't familiar with Oklahoma buildings or construction or OK soil types, and just wanted to sound like he/she knew what he/she was talking about. I am in North Texas, and I haven't seen a house with a basement here in 30 years, tho I'll admit I haven't seen every house. It's easy to put one in, but the cost is pretty high compared to just laying a concrete slab on the ground, which is the usual foundation.... On the other hand, separate underground bunkers for tornado safety are not uncommon at all.
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 11:54:14 -0700 (PDT), Robert

At least footings. As long as you've done that much, hollowing out the middle makes cheap space.

Right. Clay isn't even difficult to dig by hand. Add some rocks (aggregate) it gets a lot harder but nothing a backhoe or front loader won't cut through.

A TeeVee reporter? Say it ain't so!

Where my AL house is, they're almost as rare as hen's teeth (I saw one). My GA house is only about 70mi NE of there but basements are far more common, though certainly not ubiquitous. The difference is the terrain. Same soil but AL is somewhat flatter. GA is slightly more rolling so there are more slopes that require walls anyway. As long as you're building walls to support one end of the house, might just as well hog out a little dirt and make a basement. Generally, if the ground is sloping down, away from the street they add a basement, if it's sloping down towards the street they put in a nasty driveway. ;-) Builders try to optimize subdivisions for the former.
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eel floor with everything bolted together. That's in case a 200 MPH wind sh ould pull the footings out of the ground and turn the building over

I like that... Seems doable without a big investment.... I might suggest that it be located on the highest point on the property, and the dirt from the hole used as a berm aound the outside....... and, personally, I'd pour a 4 inch sslabe over the top, leaving the door free, of course....
Ad far as snakes.... I can't imagine how they would get in if the seams are sealed, and the entrance is tight and the stovepipe has a suitable piece of hardware cloth on it....
Could you elaborate on how a snake or rat or crazy neighbor would get in ??
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wrote:

Better yet, use 2 ventilation pipes extending to different heights and you will have natural ventilation <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_ventilation>
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The stainless-steel angles could be as small as 1 1/2" by 1 1/2" by 1/8" .
The stainless-steel angles for the floor could be as small as 1" x 1" by 1/ 8" or even 1" x 1" x 1/10" .
The stainless-steel bolt size could be as large as 3/8" .
The stainless-steel sheet for the sides, back, top, and floor would be too thin at 0.07" but heavy enough at 0.10" . The sheets would likely be used in a w idth something between 6" and 12" . The last run of stainless-steel floorin g would probably be attached with a large number 1/8" stainless-steel close d-end pop-rivets instead of with bolts.
The final roofing over the 0.10" sheet gaps could be as thick as 0.035" but okay at 0.015" .
The front door should slide in tracks with the use of two lift handles unle ss a swinging door is designed by an engineer (for 200 MPH wind) .
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# # Storm shelters are in the news so I'll attempt a few: # # <snip> # # Perhaps easier, pre-cast concrete pieces are available to make # a manhole in the ground. However, the manhole needs a pipe laid # for drainage in addition to setting the manhole six feet in the ground. #
The neatest one I saw was made by digging a trench with a front-loader Then digging a sump at the deeper end Spread a layer of gravel on bottom of trench Lay heavy groundsheet down moisture and Radon insulation Place 1 or more pre-cast box culverts into the hole (10' internal height were used in this project). <http://www.hansonpipeandprecast.com/pdf/product_sales_sheets/Hanson_BoxCulvert.pdf Cover and sides of culvert with heavy ground sheet and seal Lay foam insulation on sides and top Put end cap on deep end of culvert Build ramp, steps and doors on high end At low end cut hole and drop pre-case small diameter sewer pipe into sump Run a couple of vent pipes at regular intervals for natural convection of air Cover with dirt and you're done
Project was done in a day.
Also, and escape hatch was cut into the ceiling of the culvert so that if the door was jammed it would be possible to just dig straight up to get out The design also included a heavy hinged concrete slab as a cover over the entrance ramp, that could be anchored to the ground to additionally protect the entrance
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A roof slope could be worked out using a spacer between the 0.10" stainless-steel sheating and the 0.035" final roofing. And that instead of trying to proportion the heights of the vertical pieces .
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The trench for the footing is 18" deep and 8" wide. Then I was suggesting to pour 20" of concrete so as to have the top of the footings 1" to 2" above the ground .
Then with the stainless-steel cross pieces for the floor being 1" x 1" x 1/8" the floor goes an additional 1" high .
So the front footing probably needs a ramp slope just to make it easier to roll something into the building .
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The depth of the footings do depend on local codes or local practice .
Since the outside of the stainless-steel storm shelter can be sided with cedar boards then a gable roof add-on is also possible . These facades are just attached with stainless-steel metal and wood screws and are not a part of the storm wind protection .
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 13:41:45 -0700 (PDT), PolicySpy

boards then a gable roof add-on is also possible . These facades are just attached with stainless-steel metal and wood screws and are not a part of the storm wind protection

Not likely.
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Snyder wrote:

PolicySpy writes:
The cedar siding is optional over the stainless-steel sheathing. The stainl ess-steel sheet is 0.10" thickness and bolts to vertical stainless-steel an gles that are 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 1/8". The stainless-steel angles are vertic al in the footings up to the roof.
I am following the other subjects as well .
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With the stainless-steel vertical pieces at 24" apart then 0.10" thick stainless-steel sheating is used.
If the stainless-steel vertical pieces were 12" apart then 0.070" thick stainless-steel sheating would be okay.
The thicker sheet would stand up better to impacts by objects in the wind but both bolted-together designs should hold together in high wind .
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