Storm Shelters are in the News

[krw]

At least footings. As long as you've done that much, hollowing out the middle makes cheap space.

Right. Clay isn't even difficult to dig by hand. Add some rocks (aggregate) it gets a lot harder but nothing a backhoe or front loader won't cut through.

A TeeVee reporter? Say it ain't so!

Where my AL house is, they're almost as rare as hen's teeth (I saw one). My GA house is only about 70mi NE of there but basements are far more common, though certainly not ubiquitous. The difference is the terrain. Same soil but AL is somewhat flatter. GA is slightly more rolling so there are more slopes that require walls anyway. As long as you're building walls to support one end of the house, might just as well hog out a little dirt and make a basement. Generally, if the ground is sloping down, away from the street they add a basement, if it's sloping down towards the street they put in a nasty driveway. ;-) Builders try to optimize subdivisions for the former.

[Pete C.]

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

This ^, FEMA pub 320 I believe it is "Taking Shelter From the Storm" includes a number of designs developed and tested in Texas Tech's Tornado Lab. The problem with ICF's is that most if not all of the ICF designs have non-contiguous masonry meaning if the 200 MPH 2x4 hits at the right spot it goes right through.

[Stormin Mormon]

FEMA has the plans

[PolicySpy]

The depth of the footings do depend on local codes or local practice .

Since the outside of the stainless-steel storm shelter can be sided with cedar boards then a gable roof add-on is also possible . These facades are just attached with stainless-steel metal and wood screws and are not a part of the storm wind protection .

[clare]

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

ANY aboveground storm shelter is "exposed". ANything less than a poured re-enforced concrete bunker above ground is vulnerable. Anything underground is reasonably protected and safe from storm danger.

[PolicySpy]

With the stainless-steel vertical pieces at 24" apart then 0.10" thick stainless-steel sheating is used.

If the stainless-steel vertical pieces were 12" apart then 0.070" thick stainless-steel sheating would be okay.

The thicker sheet would stand up better to impacts by objects in the wind but both bolted-together designs should hold together in high wind .

[clare]

boards then a gable roof add-on is also possible . These facades are just attached with stainless-steel metal and wood screws and are not a part of the storm wind protection

Cedar siding is going to protect you from junk flying at 200mph???? Not likely.

[clare]

stainless-steel sheating is used.

stainless-steel sheating would be okay.

both bolted-together designs should hold together in high wind

A steel oceangoing cargo container fastened to the ground with steel corner posts set in concrete footings 4 feet deep is about as close to "storm protection" as you can get above ground, short of poured concrete. Just need a way to secure the doors from inside

[Ed Pawlowski]

I know of one design (no longer made AFAIK) where that would be true. I know of dozens of others where there is full masonry but for 1/8" spots where the ties connect the two sides. I've also seen video of

2x4 being shot at 200 MPH and doing no damage.

That said, no home it tornado "proof". Roofs, garage doors, windows can still be broken open and you will get damage. The advantage afterward is the rebuildability and the fact that it did not collapse on top of you. You still have to avoid debris getting blown through a window unless you have some sort of coverage for them that is capable of withstanding a violent storm.

[PolicySpy]

PolicySpy writes:

The cedar siding is optional over the stainless-steel sheathing. The stainl ess-steel sheet is 0.10" thickness and bolts to vertical stainless-steel an gles that are 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 1/8". The stainless-steel angles are vertic al in the footings up to the roof.

I am following the other subjects as well .

[gfretwell]

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

That is not really a long term solution and on hard pan, where do you pump the water to?

You just have a problem that there is no place for water to go. If you put in 100 yards of gravel, that would eventually fill up. because when it hits the clay, the water stops.

The issue is not drowning, just that it is too damp to use for much else.

The issue is the water table. That might be 4-6 feet down. A lot of places you can dig a well with a post hole digger.

[gfretwell]

That is pretty much what a FEMA shelter is, a concrete bunker.

[gfretwell]

stainless-steel sheating is used.

stainless-steel sheating would be okay.

both bolted-together designs should hold together in high wind

4 foot deep footings at the corners is not enough to keep that container from going "over the rainbow" in an F4 or F5. I am not even sure those sheet metal sides would stop a 2x4 coming in at 200 MPH.

[gfretwell]

The best storm home would be a shot crete dome, basically an inverted swimming pool. I met a guy north of Tampa who has one

[Kurt Ullman]

I have worked inside of the ocean going cargo containers and still seem them often. These are not all that thick, they have to be to keep the weight down. I certainly wouldn't want to put any survivability concerns on them.

[krw]

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

Bullshit. Are you really that clueless? It's done *all* the time. You pump the water to either a storm drain or into the yard, where it eventually goes into a storm drain.

It runs into drainage ditches or storm sewers. You must lead a *very* protected life.

Yet people do it all the time. Go figure.

You're clearly illiterate. Do try again, though.

[krw]

Where do they pump the water?

[Pete C.]

What water? The FEMA pub lists a number of designs, most above ground. For underground ones water isn't much of an issue if it's build properly, waterproofing techniques have come a long way.

[Robert]

I would bet if they are above ground, and earth piled up on the sides in a slope to act as a berm, that would make it a useful shelter. the slope of the dirt, and the dirt, would deflect or stop windblown objects while the container itself would be the internal form and structure... It looks doable with a few modifications. I am not sure about rust and longevity tho.....

[gfretwell]

There are plenty of places it the US where they would say "what's a storm drain"?

You must live in a more developed place than most of rural US. Talk about "protected"

What does the water table have to do with frost?