Storm Shelters are in the News

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Storm shelters are in the news so I'll attempt a few:
Dig a 6' by 8' rectangle trench that is 18" deep. Pour concrete 20" high. S tick stainless-steel angles vertical in the concrete every 24". And these a ngles could be 2" by 2" by 1/8" and 6' high above the ground. Turn the angl es for a flat surface facing out and for a corner at the corners. Have the tops of the angles make a slight slope front to rear. Overlap the tops of t he angles with horizontal angles across the building width and bolt them to gether with 1/4" stainless steel bolts and nuts. Attach stainless-steel she et that is 0.10" thickness to the angles with stainless-steel bolts and nut s. This is front, sides, back, and top. Except leave the front open for a 4 ' door design and that could be either a swinging door or a sliding door. D o a final roofing over the sheet gaps with 0.015" thickness stainless-steel sheet that is overlapped and attached to the building sides with stainless -steel metal and wood screws.
Optional: Poor a 4" thick concrete floor. Insulate the inside and attach th in paneling with stainless-steel metal and wood screws. Attach 1" x 5" ceda r boards to the outsides of the building with stainless-steel metal and woo d screws.
Of course buy the stainless-steel from a regional steel distributor.
Or for a building with rounded corners pour concrete walls into forms and a ttach a roof as previously described to stainless-steel angles sticking up from the walls.
The reason for all the stainless-steel ? Well, 300 series stainless-steel w ill never rust or corrode and thus a seal from the outside weather doesn't have to be perfect.
Then the advantage of this storm shelter is that it is also a tool shed or lawn mower shed.
Perhaps easier, pre-cast concrete pieces are available to make a manhole in the ground. However, the manhole needs a pipe laid for drainage in additio n to setting the manhole six feet in the ground .
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angle trench that is 18" deep. Pour concrete 20" high. Stick stainless-stee l angles vertical in the concrete every 24". And these angles could be 2" b y 2" by 1/8" and 6' high above the ground. Turn the angles for a flat surfa ce facing out and for a corner at the corners. Have the tops of the angles make a slight slope front to rear. Overlap the tops of the angles with hori zontal angles across the building width and bolt them together with 1/4" st ainless steel bolts and nuts. Attach stainless-steel sheet that is 0.10" th ickness to the angles with stainless-steel bolts and nuts. This is front, s ides, back, and top. Except leave the front open for a 4' door design and t hat could be either a swinging door or a sliding door. Do a final roofing o ver the sheet gaps with 0.015" thickness stainless-steel sheet that is over lapped and attached to the building sides with stainless-steel metal and wo od screws. Optional: Pour a 4" thick concrete floor. Insulate the inside an d attach thin paneling with stainless-steel metal and wood screws. Attach 1 " x 5" cedar boards to the outsides of the building with stainless-steel me tal and wood screws. Of course buy the stainless-steel from a regional stee l distributor. Or for a building with rounded corners pour concrete walls i nto forms and attach a roof as previously described to stainless-steel angl es sticking up from the walls. The reason for all the stainless-steel ? Wel l, 300 series stainless-steel will never rust or corrode and thus a seal fr om the outside weather doesn't have to be perfect. Then the advantage of th is storm shelter is that it is also a tool shed or lawn mower shed. Perhaps easier, pre-cast concrete pieces are available to make a manhole in the gr ound. However, the manhole needs a pipe laid for drainage in addition to se tting the manhole six feet in the ground .
Oh, footings are 8" wide .
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Another reason for using the stainless-steel is that it can be set directly in the footings without rusting or corroding. And this is a key attachment method for this storm shelter .
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Okay in addition, the storm shelter needs stainless-steel angles across the building width at the top of the footings and then a 0.10" stainless-steel floor with everything bolted together. That's in case a 200 MPH wind shoul d pull the footings out of the ground and turn the building over .
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 02:40:39 -0700 (PDT), PolicySpy

building width at the top of the footings and then a 0.10" stainless-steel floor with everything bolted together. That's in case a 200 MPH wind should pull the footings out of the ground and turn the building over

Lots easier to just buy a 1000 gallon square septic tank, plant it in the ground, build a treated lumber roof on the open end that is facing up with a built in cellar type door, anchor it with those mobile home type anchors about every two feet, cover with dirt, except the door of course and there you have it. A 4" pvc pipe out the roof will provide oxygen. You're not going to be in there more than about 5 minutes. Added benefit, snakes love them. <G>
Lonesome Dove
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I heard some where, that OK has clay soil, which is nearly impossible to dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
Lots easier to just buy a 1000 gallon square septic tank, plant it in the ground, build a treated lumber roof on the open end that is facing up with a built in cellar type door, anchor it with those mobile home type anchors about every two feet, cover with dirt, except the door of course and there you have it. A 4" pvc pipe out the roof will provide oxygen. You're not going to be in there more than about 5 minutes. Added benefit, snakes love them. <G>
Lonesome Dove
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 08:50:02 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.
Clay is reasonably easy to dig in. Clay does expand and shrink a lot, which makes basement walls a little trickier. Whether or not basements are common is more dependant on frost lines. Areas where frost goes deep tend to have basements because you have to dig down for the foundation anyway. Adding unfinished basement space is cheap. Not so much in areas with little ground frost. Here, there is no ground frost and basements are only found where the terrain requires them.
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 12:47:03 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

The problem with clay is water will not drain away so the basements flood easily and/or collect mold.
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 12:55:47 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

Mold won't be a problem if there is nothing in the basement to collect water. Water is always an issue with basements but proper drainage can solve most of those issues. Clay swells when it gets wet and shrinks as it dries. This *can* bust concrete walls, so they have to be built with this in mind. Basements in clay soil are easily done but it does take a little more work. No one is going to dig a hole for them if the hole isn't needed otherwise, though. It's easier to build up.
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 13:17:57 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

The problem in a big flat clay plain is how do you "properly drain" a basement?
We had the same problem in Southern Md. I chose not to have a basement in my house because virtually everyone I knew who had one, had water problems. You can build a purpose built storm cellar but there is a good chance you will have water in it.
In Florida a basement is called an indoor swimming pool.
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 14:40:18 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

Ever hear of a "sump pump"?

Poor installation. It *CAN* be done (insert existence theorem here).

Yet people did exactly that. ...and didn't drown in them.

How deep does the frost go in Florida?
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 14:47:55 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

That is not really a long term solution and on hard pan, where do you pump the water to?

You just have a problem that there is no place for water to go. If you put in 100 yards of gravel, that would eventually fill up. because when it hits the clay, the water stops.

The issue is not drowning, just that it is too damp to use for much else.

The issue is the water table. That might be 4-6 feet down. A lot of places you can dig a well with a post hole digger.
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On Thu, 23 May 2013 01:57:08 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

Bullshit. Are you really that clueless? It's done *all* the time. You pump the water to either a storm drain or into the yard, where it eventually goes into a storm drain.

It runs into drainage ditches or storm sewers. You must lead a *very* protected life.

Yet people do it all the time. Go figure.

You're clearly illiterate. Do try again, though.
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On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:15:52 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

There are plenty of places it the US where they would say "what's a storm drain"?

You must live in a more developed place than most of rural US. Talk about "protected"

What does the water table have to do with frost?
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On Thu, 23 May 2013 17:51:30 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Mohave desert? Middle of Lake Superior?

I've never seen areas with no drainage, no. ...even in the middle of OK, they have drainage ditches. You're just showing your cluelessness.

You clearly haven't understood anything I've said. If you're not illiterate, try actually reading before posting. Moron.
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On Thu, 23 May 2013 20:18:45 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

OK you win, you are smarter than everyone in Oklahoma. They should all dig a basement because you say it is OK.
Rock on dude.,
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On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:26:47 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Smarter than you, obviously. At least I can read.

You really are an idiot.
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On Wed, 22 May 2013 08:50:02 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

I heard on the TV that this area has a lot of moisture and water in the soil so digging a basement is not easily done.
It is possible to build a safe room though, a concrete bunker that can take both the strong winds and the rest of the house collapsing on it. Personally, I'd build using ICF's, (Insulating Concrete Forms) rather than sticks. You will have damage, but not total collapse.
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so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

You can go with CMUs if you drop in rebar and grout the cells. FEMA has the plans
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

This ^, FEMA pub 320 I believe it is "Taking Shelter From the Storm" includes a number of designs developed and tested in Texas Tech's Tornado Lab. The problem with ICF's is that most if not all of the ICF designs have non-contiguous masonry meaning if the 200 MPH 2x4 hits at the right spot it goes right through.
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