Storm Shelters are in the News

[PolicySpy]

Storm shelters are in the news so I'll attempt a few:

Dig a 6' by 8' rectangle trench that is 18" deep. Pour concrete 20" high. S tick stainless-steel angles vertical in the concrete every 24". And these a ngles could be 2" by 2" by 1/8" and 6' high above the ground. Turn the angl es for a flat surface facing out and for a corner at the corners. Have the tops of the angles make a slight slope front to rear. Overlap the tops of t he angles with horizontal angles across the building width and bolt them to gether with 1/4" stainless steel bolts and nuts. Attach stainless-steel she et that is 0.10" thickness to the angles with stainless-steel bolts and nut s. This is front, sides, back, and top. Except leave the front open for a 4 ' door design and that could be either a swinging door or a sliding door. D o a final roofing over the sheet gaps with 0.015" thickness stainless-steel sheet that is overlapped and attached to the building sides with stainless

-steel metal and wood screws.

Optional: Poor a 4" thick concrete floor. Insulate the inside and attach th in paneling with stainless-steel metal and wood screws. Attach 1" x 5" ceda r boards to the outsides of the building with stainless-steel metal and woo d screws.

Of course buy the stainless-steel from a regional steel distributor.

Or for a building with rounded corners pour concrete walls into forms and a ttach a roof as previously described to stainless-steel angles sticking up from the walls.

The reason for all the stainless-steel ? Well, 300 series stainless-steel w ill never rust or corrode and thus a seal from the outside weather doesn't have to be perfect.

Then the advantage of this storm shelter is that it is also a tool shed or lawn mower shed.

Perhaps easier, pre-cast concrete pieces are available to make a manhole in the ground. However, the manhole needs a pipe laid for drainage in additio n to setting the manhole six feet in the ground .

[PolicySpy]

angle trench that is 18" deep. Pour concrete 20" high. Stick stainless-stee l angles vertical in the concrete every 24". And these angles could be 2" b y 2" by 1/8" and 6' high above the ground. Turn the angles for a flat surfa ce facing out and for a corner at the corners. Have the tops of the angles make a slight slope front to rear. Overlap the tops of the angles with hori zontal angles across the building width and bolt them together with 1/4" st ainless steel bolts and nuts. Attach stainless-steel sheet that is 0.10" th ickness to the angles with stainless-steel bolts and nuts. This is front, s ides, back, and top. Except leave the front open for a 4' door design and t hat could be either a swinging door or a sliding door. Do a final roofing o ver the sheet gaps with 0.015" thickness stainless-steel sheet that is over lapped and attached to the building sides with stainless-steel metal and wo od screws. Optional: Pour a 4" thick concrete floor. Insulate the inside an d attach thin paneling with stainless-steel metal and wood screws. Attach 1 " x 5" cedar boards to the outsides of the building with stainless-steel me tal and wood screws. Of course buy the stainless-steel from a regional stee l distributor. Or for a building with rounded corners pour concrete walls i nto forms and attach a roof as previously described to stainless-steel angl es sticking up from the walls. The reason for all the stainless-steel ? Wel l, 300 series stainless-steel will never rust or corrode and thus a seal fr om the outside weather doesn't have to be perfect. Then the advantage of th is storm shelter is that it is also a tool shed or lawn mower shed. Perhaps easier, pre-cast concrete pieces are available to make a manhole in the gr ound. However, the manhole needs a pipe laid for drainage in addition to se tting the manhole six feet in the ground .

Oh, footings are 8" wide .

[PolicySpy]

Another reason for using the stainless-steel is that it can be set directly in the footings without rusting or corroding. And this is a key attachment method for this storm shelter .

[PolicySpy]

Okay in addition, the storm shelter needs stainless-steel angles across the building width at the top of the footings and then a 0.10" stainless-steel floor with everything bolted together. That's in case a 200 MPH wind shoul d pull the footings out of the ground and turn the building over .

[Lonesome Dove]

building width at the top of the footings and then a 0.10" stainless-steel floor with everything bolted together. That's in case a 200 MPH wind should pull the footings out of the ground and turn the building over

Lots easier to just buy a 1000 gallon square septic tank, plant it in the ground, build a treated lumber roof on the open end that is facing up with a built in cellar type door, anchor it with those mobile home type anchors about every two feet, cover with dirt, except the door of course and there you have it. A 4" pvc pipe out the roof will provide oxygen. You're not going to be in there more than about 5 minutes. Added benefit, snakes love them.

Lonesome Dove

[PolicySpy]

The stainless-steel angles could be as small as 1 1/2" by 1 1/2" by 1/8" .

The stainless-steel angles for the floor could be as small as 1" x 1" by 1/

8" or even 1" x 1" x 1/10" .

The stainless-steel bolt size could be as large as 3/8" .

The stainless-steel sheet for the sides, back, top, and floor would be too thin at 0.07" but heavy enough at 0.10" . The sheets would likely be used in a w idth something between 6" and 12" . The last run of stainless-steel floorin g would probably be attached with a large number 1/8" stainless-steel close d-end pop-rivets instead of with bolts.

The final roofing over the 0.10" sheet gaps could be as thick as 0.035" but okay at 0.015" .

The front door should slide in tracks with the use of two lift handles unle ss a swinging door is designed by an engineer (for 200 MPH wind) .

[Stormin Mormon]

Lots easier to just buy a 1000 gallon square septic tank, plant it in the ground, build a treated lumber roof on the open end that is facing up with a built in cellar type door, anchor it with those mobile home type anchors about every two feet, cover with dirt, except the door of course and there you have it. A 4" pvc pipe out the roof will provide oxygen. You're not going to be in there more than about 5 minutes. Added benefit, snakes love them.

Lonesome Dove

[Robert]

the building width at the top of the footings and then a 0.10" stainless-st eel floor with everything bolted together. That's in case a 200 MPH wind sh ould pull the footings out of the ground and turn the building over

I like that... Seems doable without a big investment.... I might suggest that it be located on the highest point on the property, and the dirt from the hole used as a berm aound the outside....... and, personally, I'd pour a 4 inch sslabe over the top, leaving the door free, of course....

Ad far as snakes.... I can't imagine how they would get in if the seams are sealed, and the entrance is tight and the stovepipe has a suitable piece of hardware cloth on it....

Could you elaborate on how a snake or rat or crazy neighbor would get in ??

[Attila Iskander]

The neatest one I saw was made by digging a trench with a front-loader Then digging a sump at the deeper end Spread a layer of gravel on bottom of trench Lay heavy groundsheet down moisture and Radon insulation Place 1 or more pre-cast box culverts into the hole (10' internal height were used in this project). Cover and sides of culvert with heavy ground sheet and seal Lay foam insulation on sides and top Put end cap on deep end of culvert Build ramp, steps and doors on high end At low end cut hole and drop pre-case small diameter sewer pipe into sump Run a couple of vent pipes at regular intervals for natural convection of air Cover with dirt and you're done

Project was done in a day.

Also, and escape hatch was cut into the ceiling of the culvert so that if the door was jammed it would be possible to just dig straight up to get out The design also included a heavy hinged concrete slab as a cover over the entrance ramp, that could be anchored to the ground to additionally protect the entrance

[PolicySpy]

A roof slope could be worked out using a spacer between the 0.10" stainless-steel sheating and the 0.035" final roofing. And that instead of trying to proportion the heights of the vertical pieces .

[Attila Iskander]

Better yet, use 2 ventilation pipes extending to different heights and you will have natural ventilation

[krw]

so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

Clay is reasonably easy to dig in. Clay does expand and shrink a lot, which makes basement walls a little trickier. Whether or not basements are common is more dependant on frost lines. Areas where frost goes deep tend to have basements because you have to dig down for the foundation anyway. Adding unfinished basement space is cheap. Not so much in areas with little ground frost. Here, there is no ground frost and basements are only found where the terrain requires them.

[gfretwell]

so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

The problem with clay is water will not drain away so the basements flood easily and/or collect mold.

[krw]

so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

Mold won't be a problem if there is nothing in the basement to collect water. Water is always an issue with basements but proper drainage can solve most of those issues. Clay swells when it gets wet and shrinks as it dries. This *can* bust concrete walls, so they have to be built with this in mind. Basements in clay soil are easily done but it does take a little more work. No one is going to dig a hole for them if the hole isn't needed otherwise, though. It's easier to build up.

[Ed Pawlowski]

so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

I heard on the TV that this area has a lot of moisture and water in the soil so digging a basement is not easily done.

It is possible to build a safe room though, a concrete bunker that can take both the strong winds and the rest of the house collapsing on it. Personally, I'd build using ICF's, (Insulating Concrete Forms) rather than sticks. You will have damage, but not total collapse.

[gfretwell]

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

The problem in a big flat clay plain is how do you "properly drain" a basement?

We had the same problem in Southern Md. I chose not to have a basement in my house because virtually everyone I knew who had one, had water problems. You can build a purpose built storm cellar but there is a good chance you will have water in it.

In Florida a basement is called an indoor swimming pool.

[gfretwell]

so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

You can go with CMUs if you drop in rebar and grout the cells. FEMA has the plans

[krw]

dig, so they don't have cellars. I don't know what they do for septic lines, etc. Lot of work to do trenching, perhaps. The septic tank sounds good, but might not be affordable.

Ever hear of a "sump pump"?

Poor installation. It *CAN* be done (insert existence theorem here).

Yet people did exactly that. ...and didn't drown in them.

How deep does the frost go in Florida?

[Robert]

That's just some reporter trying to fill time. It is wrong... In the north, the freeze line is deep enough so that , in order to have a stable foundation, a cellar excavation is necessary. In Oklahoma, there is no freeze line, so the foundation can lie on top of the terrain. A cellar can be built, but it isn't necessary for a stable foundation, and the cost is greater. It isn't done very much . If the soil is clay, power equipment will take care of it easily. The soils are variable throughout the state... The reporter isn't familiar with Oklahoma buildings or construction or OK soil types, and just wanted to sound like he/she knew what he/she was talking about. I am in North Texas, and I haven't seen a house with a basement here in 30 years, tho I'll admit I haven't seen every house. It's easy to put one in, but the cost is pretty high compared to just laying a concrete slab on the ground, which is the usual foundation.... On the other hand, separate underground bunkers for tornado safety are not uncommon at all.

[PolicySpy]

The trench for the footing is 18" deep and 8" wide. Then I was suggesting to pour 20" of concrete so as to have the top of the footings 1" to 2" above the ground .

Then with the stainless-steel cross pieces for the floor being 1" x 1" x 1/8" the floor goes an additional 1" high .

So the front footing probably needs a ramp slope just to make it easier to roll something into the building .