Somewhat OT - Ceramic Knives

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It's still a home issue which is why it's somewhat OT.
Anyway, anyone purchase the newer ceramic knives which are on the market? Are they all what they claim to be? I'm having trouble determining the differences between all of them which I see advertised on many sites. The prices fluctuate from $10 to $100 for a set or individual knife. Therefore, what to look for? Brand?
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On 1/24/2011 7:03 PM, SBH wrote:

Harbor Freight has them, so they can't be bad!
;-)
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I bought one from HF. What a joke. WW
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They break if dropped.
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?

You may want to search on rec.food.cooking or rec.food.equipment They have been discussed a lot there in the past couple of years. I'd say it is about 50 -50 for and against.
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On 1/24/2011 8:03 PM, SBH wrote:

I look and have others look too, for old knives at flea markets, goodwill, and where ever else. I tell them to first jump at it if it looks black and discolored, and even some rusty ones are good. I did recently get 2 that were chrome plated with rusty scratches. All of them are high carbon steel and they normally cost 50 cents to $2 I find them a better value. A good sharpening and a little swish swish thing to put an edge on them and damn they cut good.
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Amen to that. I have been building up my batch of paring knives out of the local "Grandmother's shop". 25 cents each. Got two last week, few minutes with a stone and finish with the steel and wow!
Harry K
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I have heard too many negative things from people who have owned them to even try them. Just a decent knife with a diamond stone is adequate. I have bought Victorinox, Dexter/Russell Sani-Save, and Henckels knives at garage sales for a buck.
And oh, yes, I have seen many ceramic knives at yard sales, 99% of them with a divot in the edge.
Steve
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I got two of them as a Christmas gift. Made by Kyocera, so they are the real deal. They are by far the sharpest knives I've ever used, including compared to brand new top quality steel kives like Henckel, Wuesthof, etc. Downside is that because they are brittle, they can only be used for certain things. For example, you don't want to be prying around bones, or forcing the knife through stuff. They are also very light and not sure how I feel about the way they feel in your hand. But for cutting quickly, cleanly and easily through the right stuff, they are great.
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 05:10:35 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

This is the correct answer.
I, too, have Kyoceras. They are very sharp. Because the edge is so smooth, they don't necessarily feel as sharp as a steel knife when you touch it with a finger. Although, as explained above, steel knives are still needed for certain things, I find that I usually use my Kyoceras.
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On 1/25/2011 9:48 AM, Kuskokwim wrote:

I've got the HF. Dead sharp, and cleans up super easy. Nothing sticks to it. It's my tomato knife.
Jeff
Although, as explained above, steel knives are still needed

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I'd be interested in hearing the specifics of the "negative things" you have been hearing.
It would also be interesting to know the quality of the ceramic knifes that they had used. As per my other post, there is a huge difference in quality between a $20 Yoshiblade and a $100 Kyocera or other quality knife.
In addition, as with any tool, proper care is a huge factor in it's longevity and "likability". If a tool gets mistreated and then performs poorly, is it a problem with the tool or with the mis- treater?
I made a knife holder similar to this that I made out of a piece of 2 x 12:
http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/graphics24/wood-magazine-issue-184-kitchen-drawer-knife-block.jpg
I have steel knifes that are close to 30 years old and in perfect shape because they don't get tossed in the dishpan or a utensil drawer.
On the other hand, I've been in kitchens where the owner hates their knifes - quality knifes - because their condition sucks due to years of abuse. When I ask for a knife, they rummage around in a drawer full of spatulas, serving spoons and vegetable peelers and eventually pull out a Henckel 10" carving knife, scraping the blade along every metal utensil in the drawer. No wonder they hate their knifes!
Maybe the reason every knife you have seen at garage sales are chipped due to improper care. After all, who would sell a knife that is in good shape if they liked it and took care of it?
If you were seeing ceramic knifes that were in good shape at garage sales, then that would say something different about whether people like the knifes or not.
All I'm saying is that we need to know about the quality of the knifes you've seen and the care of said knifes before we can condemn ceramic knifes in general.
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Chipping, being impossible to sharpen without sending back to factory. ($$$)

I am only stating my opinion, and I'm not interested in arriving at a consensus, or a one size fits all state. I personally wouldn't spend that much money on any knife for the better brand names. And I certainly would not buy a knife that had to be professionally sharpened.
Steve
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Impossible?
If you have a diamond stone you can do it yourself.
R
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Be careful with the cheaper ones.
Some of them are designed badly and most of them chip very easily. As with most things, you get what you pay for. "As seen on TV" should be considered a major clue.
I was at Mom's for the holidays and she had bought one of the $20 Yoshi knifes that came with the "free" ceramic peeler.
The knife was sharp enough to convince me that I want a couple of ceramic knifes, but a tiny piece of the tip had alreay broken off and there were a few chips out of the blade. She stores the knife in the cover it came with, so the chips are not due to abuse.
The other problem was the shape of the Knife. The handle is designed such that your knuckles are almost even with the bottom of the blade so that you have to avoid rapping them on the cutting board.
Look at the difference between the $20 Yoshi knife and a quality Kyocera and you'll see what Kyocrea means by "ergonomic".
https://yoshiblade.com/images/yoshiblade-com/507cc1c0-6353-4613-b87c-c6c58ce00047.jpg
http://global.kyocera.com/prdct/fc_consumer/kitchen/images/ergonomic_17.jpg
Just about every independent review I've read states that while ceramic knifes are great, they will not (should not) replace every steel knife that you use. For example, they are for cutting, not chopping.
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From those links it looks like you're comparing the shapes of a paring knife and a chef's knife. Two different animals with different form factors. A chef's knife is almost always used with a cutting board. A paring knife is used mainly held in one hand, and what you're operating is held in the other, or you're slicing with the tip and the handle is elevated. A paring knife is more like a carving knife than a chef's knife, and with a paring/carving knife you need the blade edge and handle to be almost aligned so you can involve your thumb.
http://img4.cookinglight.com/i/2004/03/paring-knife-0403p148-m.jpg
R
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I'm not sure which of of the 2 links I posted you are considering to be a "paring" knife, but neither of them look like any paring knife I've used.
As far as I know, the Yohsi knife only comes in the model shown, and is more akin to a chef's knife than a paring knife. The Yoshi knife I used at my Mom's was certainly not a pairing knife. BTW...I do know the difference. ;-)
See here for a picture:
http://www.myceramicknives.com/images/uploads/yoshiblade.jpg
And here for the complete review:
http://www.myceramicknives.com/Ceramic-Knife-Reviews/yoshi-blade-review
The Kyocera I linked to is their FK-160 WH 6.5" Chefs Knife as shown here, 7th knife down in the left hand column:
http://global.kyocera.com/prdct/fc_consumer/kitchen/ergonomic.html
Check the properties of the image and you'll see that they match the link I posted.
The paring knifes are the top ones in each column and obvious by their form factors.
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The two links you've posted for the Yoshi, side by side:

The second looks like a different knife than your first Yoshi link, doesn't it?
R
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I see what you are saying. It appears that they have changed the Yoshi knife since that review pic was posted because I still believe that there is only one Yoshiblade available. I could be wrong.
Maybe they read the reviews and redesigned the handle. I know that the one my mom has is a knuckle buster.
In any case, I plan to get 1 or 2 of different sizes, but I'm going Kyocera, not Yoshi
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 13:29:19 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

As long as you know that's it's purely a "tool thing." Not much to do with actual cutting or cooking. Not picking on ceramic knives. My wife cuts and cooks all day for a living. She never used a ceramic, and is all steel. At her work a sharpener comes in every 2 weeks. In between she touches up with a steel.
At home she likes the Wolfgang Puck 4-knife set I bought her for 30 bucks from Home Shopping Network a couple years ago. They came with a nice counter stand. She has touched up the most used a few times with a steel and said that works real good, Before that she used mostly dollar store knives. Most take steel honing well for a while. Some for years, others not so much. Still have some around. Some she tossed after a couple years.
I picked up a couple dollar chef knives about 8 years ago for my tackle box. Just to cut bait, mostly frozen squid. Still on the first one, though it's spotted with salt rusting, and the second one is unopened in the blister pack. I have a good 6" stone in my box too, but only use it for my fillet knives.
I've often wanted a good diamond wheel electric knife sharpener because I like tools, even though I hardly use a knife. Figured I could sharpen the kitchen knives for my wife. She said don't bother, she's fine with her honing steel. Buy me a topaz ring instead.
Anyway, I've concluded that knives are not really a "tool thing" for her. I kind of want to buy her some ceramic knives to test that theory, but I know she appreciates jewelry more than tools.
--Vic
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