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I can. Neither of you knows exactly how the various systems on these cars work or are interlinked. Only a complete investigation which includes knowing how the cars are designed and actually analyzing the components from the failed cars will show whether the cars could have been stopped or not.
Following your approach, the NTSB would be wasting it's time taking years to investigate plane crashes. They could just arrive at the site and shoot from the hip.
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Jim Elbrecht wrote:

I had an experience with a stuck throttle one time. It was on my 55 chevy Bel Air (2door hardtop) :-) . I had it floored in 4th gear and the flat back road was getting to the bumpy section and I let off the throttle. It stayed at full throttle. First instinct was to pound on the throttle a couple times to see if it would release. No good. Second was to stand on the brakes, well the car was sitting to long and just when I needed brakes the most, the pedal went to the floor! No brakes! Next I turned off the ignition and it started slowing down but still to fast for the upcoming road. I pumped the brakes and the master cylinder came to life and the car stopped. My buddy following me finally catches up and runs up to start beating at the open headers to put out the fire underneath me that I didn't know about. He said that when I turned off the ignition it looked like the Batmobile with flames coming out the back. I suppose the gas from the wide open 4 barrel was ignighting in the hot headers? I unstuck the throttle linkage at the carb and drove the rest of the way without going past half throttle.
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wrote:

Good one. It was easy to fix linkage at the carb in those days. On other rare occasions there might be a damaged rubber grommet at the gas pedal for other cars models?
We *needed* fire one day to light cigarettes. Stuck 20 miles in a swamp in a Model A Ford. Okay, dip a rag in gas, pull muffler, run the engine and turn off the key. Turn it on again and the backfire flame from the exhaust lit the rag.
We could have blown the piston top (S) off :-/
Those were the days..
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:05:30 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

People forget they have a parking / "emergency" brakes? What a crazy world.
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HOO BOY!
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

HOO BOY! And a Woo Hoo!
20% braking at the very most. At highway speeds after accelerating uncontrollably they will get too hot to work long before you can stop the vehicle. And no way will they make a difference if the vehicle is still in gear. Didn't we go through this recently? They don't even call them "emergency brakes" any more. They call them "parking brakes".
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Not sure what your point is but if it's to suggest that the parking brake could be used to stop a car while it's under near max power, that won't work. They are intended for parking only, the brake pads are smaller than the main pads, not hydraulically driven and only on 2 wheels. They could bring a car that is not under power to a stop, but even then only in a much longer distance than the regular brakes. Under full power, they would not have a chance. They would probably be useful in getting some additional stopping power, but whether they could make a significant difference is doubtful.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Not true. The parking brake uses exactly the same pads that the service brake uses, except (as noted) on only two wheels instead of all four.

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Doug Miller wrote:

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

When using the rear brakes with the brake pedal, they give about 20% of the braking power. That is with vacuum assist! Using the parking brake lever or pedal they provide even less braking power with no vacuum assist.
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I didn't say they provided equivalent braking power. I just pointed out that they use the same pads as the service brakes.
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wrote:

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

On many cars with read disk brakes the "parking" brake is a VERY small drum brake inside the rear rotor and will have virtually NO effect on slowing the car at speed, in gear or out.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

That's news to me but either way we both know the parking brake isn't going to stop a car at highway speeds and full throttle. No argument from me.
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Yep, If the service brakes won't do it, the parking brake for sure won't.
Now, if the parking brake is on a separate drum or disk, or something that hasn't already been heated up by the service ones, the parking _might_ finish stopping the car if it was already down to slow speed by the service brakes. That's about it.
Harry K
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in wrote:

Or just at a considerable speed.

yes,the LEAST effective pair of braking wheels. He IS right about rear brake pads being smaller than the fronts. Most of a car's braking is from the front pair of wheels. Also,disc brakes don't perform well without hydraulic power.

This has been my experience.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
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On Mar 2, 9:50am, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Maybe on YOUR car, but not on my Mercedes. The parking brake pads are completely seperate. I'm not sure what various other manufacturers do. I'm sure others as you say do use the same pads. But even if they do, it then has even less relevance to stopping the car under runaway conditions. If you're already standing on the hydraulic brakes that use the same pads, applying the parking brake isn't going to do anything,
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

You make the mistake of generalizing on the basis of a too-small sample -- in this case, a sample of one.

Trust Mercedes to do something bizarre. Your car is the exception, I assure you. *Every* vehicle I have ever owned used a cable to activate the same pair of rear shoes or pads that were activated hydraulically by the service brake. That list of vehicles includes three Dodges, a Plymouth, a Ford van, a Fiat, a Chevy truck, a Dodge truck, two Mazdas, an Oldsmobile, two Buicks, two Suburbans, two Saturns, and a Pontiac. _Every_single_one_ used exactly the same pads or shoes for the parking brake as for the service brake.
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Most cars with rear disk brakes use a small drum brake for the parking brake.
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in (Doug Miller) wrote:

some cars with rear disc brakes use a tiny DRUM brake built into the rotor center for the "emergency" brake,because disc calipers need so much more force to be effective.
either way,cable brake force is NOWHERE near the braking power that hydraulic discs have.
--
Jim Yanik
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Times are changing. You think it is bizarre, others are doing it now.
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:09:55 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

And there is a list just as long that does not. Like most Volvos, Corvette and any rear wheel disk GM and a few of the newer models of just about every one of the brands you noted.
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