Hi all, My outside AC, compressor unit 3 ton was installed when the house was built in 1988. It has served me very well for 17 cooling seasons without any problems. The only maintenance on the unit has been an annual spring inspection, and it has never needed any parts or freon. Some say it should have failed three years ago. Others say run it till it fails. Should I put this machine out to pasture? Thanks for your input
Vote me for run it till it quits. There is probably some energy savings to be had but the payback time is not worth replacing a working system. Just be sure your ductwork is tight and the system is serviced regularly. Just imagine how efficient the newer systems will be when yours finally quits ;-)
when the house
cooling seasons without
an annual spring
say run it till it
Dunno why some would say it should have failed "three years ago"; you sure it's not jealousy?
I look at stiff like that a little like a car: Given good care/maintenance/driving, even years ago it wasn't all that unusual to get a hund thousand miles on one, and todays cars, well, I know several who made it real close to two hundred and the reason they got rid of them didn't have anyting to do with the mileage - they rusted out, fell apart, stopped heating, needed a fuel tank, stuff like that. IMO, I think this way:
-- Will I care if it goes out on a hot day and it takes a week to get it replaced?
-- If I replace it, is there any assurance the replacement won't go out during its infant mortality stages and require a week to fix?
-- How much does it cost to run it per hour of electricity used?
-- How much does it cost to run a new one per hour of electricity used?
-- Is the cost of a new unit worth that long a payback period/the loss of the extra money?
-- Do I care/like/dislike/need/want the neat little bells & whistles that go with a new unit?
And so on; the list can get longer, but that's my initial thoughts.,
I'm cheap! I don't fix things that ain't broke unless I have a pressing reason, not because someone else told me I should. And I'll research the info I need IF I worry about it giving up soon, rather than take anyone's word for it. And yes, I'm above average with my preventive maintenance; saves thousands. Finally retired my 28 year old lawn tractor two years ago; had to, the mower deck was a sieve instead of a deck and couldn't be patched anymore, the battery holder was gone, and the steering was a point 'n' hope style. Love my new one though! But it ain't gonna last like the last one, I can see that now. Oh yeah, the old one's a bird haven; we fill it with cedar in the winter for the birds.
Cheers, Pop
The average lifespan of a 1980's split system air conditioner is about
15 years. Yours is just at the average point, which means it could easily run longer. However, it is remarkable that you've never needed any service. Usually you'd have replaced at least the condenser fan motor by now, and maybe a capacitor or two. Both these are minor maintenance items.I would let the system run, and even consider repairing it a couple of times (assuming you don't spring a refrigerant leak or have something else happen that requires opening the system). Installed in 1988, your current system is probably a minimum of 9.0 SEER even if it was a "builder's model". Although new systems will be more energy efficient, you'll never pay back the investment required to replace a functioning system with energy cost reductions.
What is your AC bill , what seer is your unit, they loose apx 2% in efficiency per year. You could get 14 - 20 seer, depending on where you live and how much you run it will determine what is best for you. If your old unit is say a 7 seer a 14 will cut your bill in half. At 14 seer is 1 watt consumed for 14 btu of cooling.
Run the numbers your savings may be worth it, and you will avoid a major repair.
Then do you have forced air heat ? consider a 94.5% furnace with VS DC motor that will save electricity in winter. Now your costs are up and so are your savings.
jentra, check your mail
It is not possible to say how much longer it may continue to function. It is easy to say that you will save operating cost using a new one. The question is will it be worth the cost to get the savings. In some parts of the world you may have cheap power and only run it a few weeks a year. In other parts power is far more expensive and you may run it all but a few weeks.
Do you have a citation for "loose (sic) 2% in efficiency"? Assuming a good installation and proper maintenance, what causes the efficiency loss? If your thinking is that it is leaking compressor valves, then would this same premise apply to scrolls?
I have a 20 year old Carrier Round (recip) that was originally rated - with it's oversized evaporator and TXV -at 8.3 SEER. I just measured the power consumption (including air handler) at 3.6 kw, which for 30K BTU would be a SEER of 8.29.
Admittedly, I don't have an accurate way to measure the total BTU output of the system, but temperatures and pressures are spot on relative to the day it was installed. If the 2% efficiency decline were correct then I'd expect the performance change and or electrical consumption difference to be significant, and therefore noticeable.
Also, I recently replaced a second, identical Carrier system with a 29K BTU 13.0 SEER unit, and received exactly the cost reduction I expected to see by going from 8.3 SEER to 13.0 - power consumption went from 3.6 kw to 2.2 kw and my power consumption (adjusted for degree days) dropped accordingly. Again, no sign that the old system performance was degraded 40% by "age".
Sure Travis I have and article but your mail address doesnt look real-correct and I dont know how to forward an article to the group
Forward a link to the article.
This is Turtle.
I'm sorry to tell you that by a accident or on purpose some hvac installer installed your system correctly. If by accident a installer installed it correctly. you are faced with the problem of it running the next 30 to 40 years. Now you will have to change the condenser and furnace blower motors before the
40 years is up but You will be doing a good deed by letting a hvac service company make a little money.30 to 40 years is not out of the question if installed correctly and oil the blower and condenser motors every 20 years weither they need it or not.
TURTLE
my sentiments exactly.
Can you copy and paste the content? Or, you can send it to this address Yes, it is a real address.
Thanks.
spam dot trap at-sign hotpop dot com
Assuming you plan on living there for a long time...
Definitely junk it and get the highest efficiency model and best installation you can get if you're in a place like Texas or Arizona.
Don't bother doing anything to it if you're in a place like the Pacific NW where power is ~8 cents/kWh and you only use it lightly weeks out of the year.
Everyone that has replied has some good points. You could say "if it ain't broke....", but what if it breaks during the hottest time of the summer? 9 times out of 10 you are only going to get a hack or dishonest company (I guess they are one in the same) to put in a new one with short notice. If you are willing to sweat it out, you should take the time to get 3 different contractors to give you a QUOTE (NOT an estimate). Ask your friends and neighbors who they would use, and remember: The brand means very little compared to the installer.
Then you have to look at how much you use it. Do you live in a hot and humid area where it gets used a good 4 or 5 months (or more) out of the year? If so, you COULD save quite a bit of money on your electric bill per month. Let's say your current A/C is an 8 SEER (post your brand and model number and someone here can tell you) and you replace it with a 16 SEER. If your cooling bill is $100 a month, you'd cut that in half. You could realistically save $250 a summer by updating your system. Then again, if you only use it a couple months out of the summer, you may want to run it until it dies.
Then you have to look at the replacent cost. A 10 SEER unit is going to be a lot cheaper than a 16 SEER, but there is quite a difference in the energy savings. The best thing to do is to have the contractors give you quotes on the different SEERs (say a 12, 14, and a 16). Ask for brochures on the equipment. Most of the major manufacturers devote a couple paragraphs (and graphs/charts) to explaining the savings on different SEERs.
Check the warranty on the units. A lot of the manufactorers are using Scroll compressors that (most) have a minimum 10 year warranty. Then ask the contractor what THEIR warranty is. Some companies will give you 2 years labor , 5 years parts, and 10 years on the compressor no matter what the manufacturer's warranty is. Other may give you one year. If a compressor craps out in it's second year, it's still under warranty, but if the contractor only gives you one year on their work, sure! You'll get the compressor for free, but you may end up paying 6 or 7 hundred dollars (or more!) just to change it out (labor, freon, etc.).
Then there is the R-22 vs. R-410A debate. When the 410 first came out, most of the contractors rolled their eyes because they have seen the "replacement refrigerants" before that never lasted. IMHO, I think 410 is here to stay. I don't believe the hype that "R-22 will be scarce soon so you better get 410 or you could ending up paying an arm and a leg for a leak repair because the price or R-22 is going to skyrocket!!!" I doubt that. I think their is so much of it stockpiled now that the price will actually come DOWN (after they phase it out) rather than go up. However, a lot of the manufacturers are going to stop making the R-22 units sooner than the phase out will occur, so there will come a time where the 410 units will be the only thing available (or until some genius comes up with ANOTHER refrigerant! ;-] ). And at one time, the 410 units were more expensive than the 22s, but that has changed quite a bit. Some of the companies (American Standard/Trane) price them the same. Bottom line: You could go either way when it comes to the refrigerant type. There is nothing wrong with the 410 units, and if you decide on an R-22 unit and are worried about the availability of R-22 when it is phased out, don't. By that time you will either 1) need a new unit anyway, or 2) Someone else be living in your house....;-]
Sorry I rambled on, but just wanted to give you a few things to think about. Here are the main points:
1) Don't worry about the brand. The installer is MUCH more important. 2) Always get at least 3 QUOTES.3) Have regular preventative maintenance (and your unit will live past it's "expectancy")
4) Wax on, wax off.........
Underneath us all There's a world that we always forget 'til it moves us Where the moon on the bay dances all alone Ramone, he draw the razor swift, it slice the air No more lovely dreams of those summer nights Down in santo domingo They laugh and play in the sleepy harbor town So unaware of the danger that's around
Livin' on the fault line Livin' on the fault line Livin' on the fault line Livin' on the fault line
No one can run when it finally comes down Nobody knows what is stirrin' underground Caruso stumbled While the city tumbled down The palace was in splinters Theodore was leaving town
I will send it to snipped-for-privacy@No.net
OK Travis you got it , repost it if you think it is worth reading Mark
Hardcrab , poetic , high and useless
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