Question about magnets

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jeffc wrote:

I think you are the second with that statement. Must be because neither of you can answer it.
Guess you missed the fact that the kids question was based on a fallacy. People that know practically nothing about science, e.g. most 9 year old children, often ask questions based on a fallacy.
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 03:54:49 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

Electro-magnetism is but a subset of magnetism in general. Since he's discussing this with a 9-year old, he is almost certainly talking about non-electro-magnetism. That is, permanent magnets. If permanent magnets aren't subjected to heat or violence, their power won't run out in one lifetime. Horseshoe shaped magnets should be kept with their "keeper", the bar from one pole to the other.
So don't pat yourself on the back too much. You should have said magnetism, not electro-magnetism. (The latter probably didn't exist except during lightning strikes until the 19th century.)

You were pounded down, not because you seemed to exhibit some knowledge, but because you insulted a guy who had done nothing to deserve it, whose questions made total sense. Not that one should insult someone just because he doesn't make sense or does worse than that.

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mm wrote: ((snipped))

Yeah I know it was harsh, too harsh to the OP, not to the others.
I'll be harsh again. Although I don't have great faith in wikipedia, you should look at the below before you post about electromagnetism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetism
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That's a pretty weak question. Perhaps the OP isn't as strong as you are at physics.
;)
--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
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Philip Lewis wrote:

Ha. Ha. I didn't expect an answer, it was just a tease since the kid's question is about basic physics. It does bite my butt that few adults can answer two simple question, Name three natural forces and name three states of matter. (Don't expect anyone to list all the forces and all the recognized states of matter). That very basic information about the world we live in isn't taught in schools or at least it isn't taught in a manner that students retain or understand it.
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A significant fraction of the people in the country can't reliably identify the atlantic ocean on an unlabled map, their anniversary, or their own freaking email password. And you're expecting to remember what a "state of matter" is?
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Goedjn wrote:

Yes, because it is at hand everyday. If one doesn't know the general properties of a liquid and a gas, they are likely to have an accident when boiling water. The most basic information about states of matter and fundamental forces is useful at a personal level.
But, yeah, I forget my passwords too and since I don't expect any break-ins to steal my passwords, I write them down. As for not identifying the Atlantic ocean--the problem is mostly low IQ or a really poor education.
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:58:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

I seem to remember something about half the students at the University of Miami not being able to find Florida on a US map.
--
76 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
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I've heard they've recently created new states, and in a search found more than i though:
Bose-Einstein Condensate Liquid: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2005/matter.html
Bose-Einstein Condensate Solid: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2006/09/27/tech-bose-einstein.html
Some new superhot liquid: http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID -38
neat.

well, I learned and retained it in the 70s/80s... but i'll bet many folks in the same class havn't. I can't spell for crap though. Different folks will learn and retain different things given the same stimuli/classes. It's just a matter of what folks find to be important to them. Sadly, a large percentage of those folks find trivia about sports or trite television shows to be more important than states of matter and physical forces.
--
May no harm befall you,
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
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Florida and Ohio are states that matter to politicians.
The state of euphoria matters to me.
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I thought the two that mattered to political aspirants were New Hampshire and Massachussets...

Not a state of contentment?
The Ranger
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writes:

It sounds like you are trying to show people how smart you are. It would have been a great start actually answering the question. Who cares about Socratic blabber not even related to the question?
A nine year old asking a question "based on a fallacy"? For crying out loud - university is a long way from a nine year old. Did you possess your "states of matter" nugget when YOU were nine years old? Maybe not....
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writes:

Those are the ones who don't know shit. On the other hand, obvious cheapskates looking for free labor who ask me something related to house and building crap are promptly told I don't know nothin'. I just do a little painting, no trim though... too complicated, and tighten a door knoob here and there.
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George E. Cawthon wrote Electro-magnetism is one force, another is gravity. Here is your question, name two other natural forces!
============ You appear to be the smartest person here. Could you get us started by enumerating the "unnatural forces" before we start listing the "natural forces"?
Obviously you are too bright and too smug to make a 9th grader's mistake of referring to the 4 fundemental forces as "natural forces."
All forces are natural. But it is commonly believe (thanks to Uncle Albert) that all forces are derived from 4 fundemental forces. Proving it was one of Einsteins great unfinished works.
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Gideon wrote: ...

The timing here isn't right--at the time Einstein did special and general relativity, the strong and weak nuclear forces weren't yet identified. In his latter years, his attempts at unification were hindered greatly by being still too early and his unwillingness to accept quantum mechanics as being an actual description of "how the world works". The problem is that without QM, we have no way to describe the miniscule although the large is handled nicely. Unfortunately, even at the large scales, when one gets to the boundary conditions where gravitational fields become immense, then there QM rears its ugly head again.
For readable accounts for any interested, Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" and Brian Greene's various works are recommended. Hawking primarily for up to the time at which the transition to string theories (mid-80s or thereabouts) essentially replacing earlier attempts (such as "supergravity") and Greene for newer developments.
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Didn't know string theory was that old! Don't get much exposure to that line of stuff any more. Limited to catching something by chance on PBS/Nova/Disc. Sometimes even Cops gets old :-)
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Al Bundy wrote:
...
...

This old guy finds it incredible, too. All this stuff was essentially unknown when I was finishing undergraduate work and still considered almost purely conjectural even after had finished graduate degree some ten years later (didn't go straight on, obviously. I'm slow, but not _that_ slow! :) )
If you have any interest at all, I do strongly recommend both Hawking and Greene. Particularly The Brief History of Time is quite short and an easy read (he states in the Foreword that his editors told him his audience could be expected to be halved for every equation he included so there's only one in the entire book! :) ) but does a nice job of explaining the overall transition from the Aristolean thru Copernican and to Newtonian physics, then the "crises" that led to modern physics in a way that is quite coherent. It does cover the very rudimentary ideas of string theories towards the end, but was written when these ideas were still evolving quite rapidly so that to try to do more than mention them would have detracted more than explained.
Greene (The Elegant Universe, etc.) is a little harder going, but still not at all a textbook but a general description/overview and written more recently. The concepts there start to get _really_ esoteric (as if quantum effects and special relativity aren't bizarre enough as compared to "normal" experience! :) ), but are fascinating as to what may (and I emphasize the "may" here) turn out to be the way the universe is actually put together. (There was at least one NOVA built around The Elegant Universe, but I found it difficult to really get much from as the production seemed somehow disjointed. It was interesting, but not satisfying, at least to me. Being able to read the book was better.)
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dpb wrote:

Uh oh. Dangerous to raise your head here, prepare to be pounded down. Can't have anyone above the average level.
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snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net says...

Don't think dpb has anything to worry about -- it's not being well- educated that sets people off here, it's being a pompous jackass about it. dpb provided information in a polite manner, rather than supercilious questions, quite a different approach to social interaction.
--
snipped-for-privacy@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/
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Gideon wrote:

Being snotty and a jackass makes you smarter?

9th graders don't generally know anything about forces and in most school have not take chemistry or physics. But you may have me there, fundamental is a better words than natural.

Wow! I always thought learning basic information was more valuable that learning who discovered it and when it was discovered.
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