I can't help but agree with that point of view. The kid's parents
clearly didn't do a good enough job of indoctrinating him on the dangers
of guns appearing in public, whether they are real weapons or "look
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 17:10:50 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
The split second was purely due to the cruiser zooming up and the police
leaping out. This was easily avoidable *by the police".
Besides who says the gun was pointed at the police. They could have just
stopped back 30 feet or so and used the PA system in the car to get the
suspect on the ground before anything was fired.
Before drawing conclusions, it would be good to have some facts when
investigated. Everything can always be done different, be it good or
bad. Since neither of us was there we cannot say for sure. Your
suggestion of using the PA is interesting, but we don't even know if
that was an option.
On Friday, November 28, 2014 6:41:50 PM UTC-5, Thane wrote:
In the video I saw, if the kid had stayed where he was, at the gazebo,
the distance would have been 30 feet or so. As the car rolls up, the
kid is moving toward the car, greatly reducing the distance. He leaves
the table seconds before the car comes into view, likely because he
saw the police car coming. Why the kid headed in the direction he did,
we don't know. Was that the direction to go home? Or maybe the police
car was on a different path before the kid got up and started to move
and he was initially moving away from where he thought the police car
would go. There is still a lot here we don't know.
You can't say that. What happens if it's a real gun and the guy grabs
Then the question becomes, why didn't the cop take him out before he
had a chance to harm anyone?
How long do you give a guy with a gun in a public park to comply?
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 20:03:18 -0500, Kurt Ullman wrote:
But it clearly wasn't real and it was a 12 year old and no-one got shot.
Where does serve and protect mean shoot first just in case? Proper police
practices doesn't mean screwing around, it means ...well I'll let you
figure that out.
On Friday, November 28, 2014 10:19:53 PM UTC-5, Thane wrote:
They didn't screw around. Apparently the one cop had a situation where
he felt his life was threatened by a perp with a gun at a close distance
and he defended himself, firing only one shot. He also didn't know the
gun was fake, that it was a 12 yr old kid.
And I would argue that someone walking around in a public park waving a gun in the air is quite irrational.
No one can predict what irrational thing they'll do next.
> and it was a 12 year old and no-one got shot.
For all practical purposes, a 12-year-old with a gun is just as dangerous as an 18-year-old with a gun.
If someone is walking around a public park waving a gun in the air, I fully support the police taking them out.
In my opinion, the kid's behavior makes me believe he was just a worthless hooligan.
The world is now a safer place for *all* of us law-abiding citizens.
Just think. Now the community won't have to pay
for the arrests, welfare, drug rehab, juvie
programs, incarceration, and all the second
generation babies who he might have left behind.
All of this brought to you by liberal elected
reps who drive fathers out of the house, and
reward immorality and fornication.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 23:09:36 -0500, Seymore4Head wrote:
What if it had been your kid? Don't just say he wouldn't have been
allowed to do that. Kids pick up things and play with them, even things
they're not meant to have. Would you he happy the police shot him for
(mistakenly) playing with a toy gun? It seems a harsh penalty whether it
was a mistake or not.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-police and not trying to change the
world. I'm just a grandparent speaking to the evidence shown in a video.
watching the guy for some time. He'd probably seen him within 10 feet
several times but did not realize he was a boy.
The gun had a big bore, as if it had been manufactured more to scare
people than to shoot at cans. The caller may have thought it was fake
because the guy seemed to be playing.
The caller complained that he kept pulling the gun out and pointing it
at people, scaring the shit out of them. The surveillance video showed
him blocking the path of a pedestrian and pointing the gun at 3 feet,
and continuing to point it as the pedestrian went around. Apparently it
looked real enough that nobody dared interact with him.
The dispatcher didn't tell the cops it was "probably fake." I can see
why. It wasn't known to be fake. Real or fake, the cops wanted to keep
anyone from getting hurt.
The gun was in his waistband, hidden by his jacket, when police pulled
in. I can see why they didn't stop at a distance. The guy was behaving
irrationally. If they'd given him time, he might have escalated from
scaring to shooting if the gun was as real as it looked. Besides,
civilians might have walked into danger.
As the car stopped, the guy rushed at the passenger door, pulling up his
jacket with his left hand and reaching to his waistband with his right.
The camera produced approximately 1 frame per second. The guy had his
jacket nearly a foot above his belt when there was smoke and he went
down. The passenger cop opened his door and ran away, taking cover
behind the car. The driver took cover behind the left fender. The
guy's head came up, then went back down, out of sight.
I heard anguish in the cop's voice when he called for an ambulance. He
described the victim as 20. He described the gun in detail, apparently
unaware that it was not a firearm.
On Saturday, November 29, 2014 1:06:36 AM UTC-5, J Burns wrote:
It wasn't totally fake and harmless. It apparently was apparently an
airgun that shoots plastic pellets. It can easily put your eye out.
I've thought about that part of it too. It would be interesting to know
if the 911 dispatch people have any training, recommended procedures in
that situation. In this case, if 911 dispatch had told the cops it was
possibly a fake, it might have made a difference. But on the other hand,
maybe the police have a policy of taking any threat with anything that might
be a gun seriously and handling it the same way and not give the responding
cops speculative info on what a weapon might or might not be.
Most of the distance near the end has been closed not by the police,
but by the kid. He got up from the table under the gazebo and headed
*toward* where the cop car was going.
I didn't see that level of detail in the video I watched. You must
have a better one? Have a link we can look at it?
It wasn't technically a firearm, it couldn't kill anyone. But it wasn't
a harmless toy either. It was an airgun capable of putting an eye out.
frame. The original was 2 frames per second. Slow motion gave me two
seconds to look at each frame.
I see the kid's right elbow was out to the side and rising. I'd say he
was drawing, and his muzzle was just clearing his waistband when he was
shot. Like a western movie.
The cop ran away instead of continuing to shoot. Clearly, he wasn't
reasonable person in fear for his life. "But when I scared the cop down
at 34th and Vine, he broke my little bottle of Assault Potion #9."
On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:22:45 PM UTC-5, Thane wrote:
I won't just say he wouldn't be allowed to do that. But I would hope
that in years of parenting, plus life experience, he would have known
that he shouldn't do it. Kind of like teaching your kid how to swim,
how not to go swimming where they shouldn't, etc. Yet some kids wind
up going to a lake with no lifeguard, no one else around, and drowning.
Kids pick up things and play with them, even things
I wouldn't be happy. Anyone here say they are happy? But I also don't
see these parents saying the cops shot their son down in cold blood either.
It also wasn't administered as a penalty, anymore than the kid drowning in
the lake example.
Also it was *not* a toy gun. According to the accounts I've heard, it
was an airgun that shoots plastic pellets. Those kinds of guns can shoot
a variety of projectiles, depending on what specific gun it was. Even
the ones that shoot plastic projectiles can easily put out an eye. Ones
that shoot pellets or BB's cause injury and can penetrate skin. A 12 year
old pointing one at people walking down the street is dangerous. You
want your eye taken out?
Do you not see in the video that the kid is the one that greatly closed
the distance between himself and the police car. He was heading right
toward it, not staying where he was or going in the other direction.
Kind of like Ferguson in that regard. In this case, *now* everyone knows
it was a 12 year old with a plastic pellet airgun.
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