OT: While we're at it, how about his police shooting?

The "gun culture" people I've known always follow the safety rules, and would never get shot by a cop.

More like the hollywood unsafe idiots who wave guns around, culture.

So you are saying it is OK to kill a cop in a shootout?

If you obey the commands of the cop and do not appear to be threatening, you are protecting your life.

The way I heard it, you were not "allowed", it was mandatory. I heard it on the internet, so it must be true.

In a million years I never thought I'd say this, but the only way the issue can be solved would be if the police cruisers carried video cameras.

In the Ferguson incident I saw a published report that summarized all the witnesses and what they "saw" was all over the map. A video camera would help settle things.

If a review board saw the video and the policeman's actions were deemed justified that should end the matter period.

My wife and I do volunteer work at a non-profit agency and there is video surveillance everywhere. There has never been an incident worse than some petty theft but they have cameras.

So, if some very low risk agency deems it a good idea to have surveillance I don't see why the police don't .

Thanks to Google I looked up "yellow gun' and got a bite.

There such a thing as a martial arts yellow training gun.

It's just a prop, but it must be used for training people how to knock a gun out of someone's hand.

I can't help but agree with that point of view. The kid's parents clearly didn't do a good enough job of indoctrinating him on the dangers of guns appearing in public, whether they are real weapons or "look alike" toys.

Jeff

You think the mace cop was just being lazy and cheap?

- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

I think the "good handle" came from people who knew the kid. I guess he had a good reputation. They figured the only reason he would have reached for his gun was that he thought he was being cooperative.

Around that age, my favorite toy was a Hubley "replica" of a Colt 38 automatic. I loved it because it was heavy and pretty realistic for a toy, and it fired reliably. When a kid goes to shoot somebody 8 times fast, the last thing he needs is a gun that won't feed and fire roll caps reliably.

I was always pulling it out of my waistband or coat pocket and shooting friends. They weren't scared because they knew me. I didn't shoot adults or strangers. It never occurred to me that they'd be scared, but it seemed rude. Perhaps if at an early age, I'd known adults who thought my pointing a toy gun at them was cute, I might not have considered it rude to point at strangers when I was 12.

I used to walk around town with my Daisy Model 25 pump gun. It wasn't a pump-up gun. The pump action was just a quicker way than a lever to compress the spring. If I pulled the trigger to be sure the spring wasn't cocked, I knew it was perfectly harmless because there was no energy to propel a BB. Still, I never pointed at anyone because it would have been rude, due to the possibility in their mind that I might accidentally put a BB in their eye.

I've never been asked to do a field sobriety test, but I've always had misgivings. I believe the company that developed it, warned police that

here is the law

It makes perfect sense. But I don't know how you deal with people who are unreasonable in their beliefs. I hate to eliminate laws that protect people when utilizing their reasonable beliefs, just because there are stupid people who have unreasonable beliefs.

You know, that sure would make it easier to understand, later. If incidents were on video.

- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

the images need to be much clearer and with a wider field of view (without compromising detail). How many times have we seen a fuzzy image, or realize we need to see what is happening off screen?

The place where I volunteer has pretty decent quality and the recorder itself was somewhere around $200. Twenty four hours of recording.

One word: Rodney King beating.

So much of the context was lost.

- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

well, it wouldn't have been so bad if the media would have shown the entire video.

I'd include "kids" who aren't minors, but the state doesn't seem to have restrictions. In Akron, it's 18. If police learned that a father was showing a minor how to shoot a BB gun in their basement, they could be arrested.

When an Iraq War veteran moved into Ashtabula City from outside the limits, police came into his yard and confiscated his air gun.

In Cleveland, nobody may carry a BB gun in a public place, or have it readily available. The kid shot in Cleveland was violating the law, but at his age he may not have known it.

I downloaded it in HQ. I was mistaken. Some of it was sped up 4 times, but not the critical seconds.

He hardly looks at the gun when he picks it up. He doesn't look at it again. As he listens on and no to the cell phone, he pays no attention to other shoppers, the merchandise on the shelves, or the gun in his hand, with the muzzle usually hanging by his ankle. Who wouldn't pity him? He came to play video games, but the girl won't get off the phone. He holds the gun as I'd hold an umbrella during a long, boring phone call.

The shooting took place in a corner of the grocery section. We're looking down the last aisle, with the wall on the right. There's a cross aisle at the end, and then another wall. He's about 5 feet from the other end of our aisle, facing the shelves on the left. His left shoulder is toward us. He talks on a phone in his left hand. The rifle hangs in his right hand. Like a pendulum, the muzzle swings a few inches fore and aft.

He bends forward and places the rifle on the floor in the middle of the aisle, complying without ever putting himself in a position where, if it were a firearm, he could shoot.

Before standing up, he dives to the floor and exits around the end of the shelves in a low crawl, his belly on the floor. His girlfriend said she heard him say, "It isn't real," then there was a shot, then he was crying. I think the shot missed. I think he was crying in terror because he was at the mercy of a cop who seemed intent on murdering him.

A cop with a rifle walks down the aisle from our direction, his back to us. Apparently he'd fired the shot. He's halfway down the aisle when the victim leaps up and sprints back around the end of the row toward him. The victim doubles back, and the cop apparently shoots him in the back.

Having dived to the floor in terror, I don't know why the victim would have jumped up unless a second cop had fired at him. He was on his belly on a light-colored floor in good light. No rifle was near him.

It appears that the victim was killed because of a sequence of at least three police shots, none of which could be justified. If I read that the feds have put the whole department in Leavenworth for life without parole, I won't think it wrong.

I'd very much like to see a reference to that law. I say it's baloney. In Ohio, like most states, minors can even go hunting, so I seriously doubt it's illegal for a father to show a minor how to shoot a BB gun in their basement. Provide us with the law please.

If he was shooting it in the yard, I can see how they could have a law against that. The devil is in the details. Link please.

I doubt the law says you can't have it "readily available". If so, might as well make them all illegal. Sitting in a corner in a person's house is "readily available".

Sure, that happens to me all the time. I go into a store, get distracted on a cell phone call, and wind up picking up a riflle and walking around the store with it for 10 mins.

I couldn't see any of that level of detail. Nor have I heard that version in the media. You're saying he laid the gun down, complying with the cops and after that, they shot, missed, then continued to shoot and gunned him in down in cold blood. I don't see even the family or the usual rabble rousing race baiters saying anything like that.

Again, from the limited view of what I can see on that video, none of the above is supported.

Again, IDK where in that sequence he was shot. It's possible he was shot while *holding* the gun. I can't see how the gun wound up on the floor.

Sure, jump to conclusions, based on what you think you see in a grainy, poor, surveilance video. I can't see even one shot being fired. And heh, if something was done wrong, let's not convict just the cop, assuming it was even criminal, let's convict the whole police dept and put them all in jail.

You as sure about all that as you are that it's illegal to show a minor how to use a BB gun in your basement?

Bingo. In these incidents like Ferguson, the media ignores most of the real data, instead repeating the line "unarmed black teen shot by cop".

I just learned some more data that you won't hear on the lamestream media. Forensics at Ferguson show blood drops 25ft to 30ft away from where officer Wilson was. That puts Brown's max distance away at that range or greater. The final shot to the front of the head that killed him was at about 10 ft.

Now, which version of events does that support? A guy with his hands up, surrendering? Or a guy charging back at the cop?

Akron (§ 137.11) prohibits any person under age 18 from possessing any air gun or ammunition for an air gun. The parent or guardian of any person under age 18 is prohibited from knowingly permitting the person under age 18 from using or possessing an air gun or air gun ammunition. Akron (§ 137.13) also generally prohibits any person or other entity from selling, offering for sale, giving away, distributing, or furnishing an air gun or air gun ammunition to any person under age 18.

Cleveland (§ 627.10(a)) prohibits any person from carrying or having in his or her possession or ready at hand any BB or pellet gun while at or about a public place.

Are you insinuating that he should have been shot for it?

Obviously you didn't bother to download the HQ version, zoom, and slow it down.

Ok, so now instead of listening to what some folks tell you the law says, lets look at the actual law on the books:

A.

For the purpose of this section the following definitions shall apply unles s the context clearly indicates or requires a different meaning.

"Airgun." Any air pistol, air rifle, BB gun, pump gun, pellet gun, CO-2 gun , or similar instrument or device capable of discharging ammunition by mean s of air pressure or spring action.

"Ammunition." Any leaden or metallic projectile, any pellet, or any other s ubstance capable of inflicting injuries to persons or property when used in an airgun.

B.

It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of eighteen to use or hav e in his possession any airgun or ammunition.

C.

The provisions of this section do not prohibit or render it unlawful to use or possess any airgun or ammunition for purposes of instruction in firearm safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control o f a responsible adult.

D.

It shall be unlawful for the parent or guardian of any such person under th e age of eighteen in his charge or custody to knowingly permit any such per son under the age of eighteen to use or have in his possession any airgun o r ammunition unless such use or possession falls within the exception of su bsection C of this section.

E.

Whoever violates this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor in the third degree.

Section C clearly says you're full of baloney, just as I suspected.

You said the law prohibited one from having a BB gun readily available. A gun in the corner of my room, is readily available. A gun in a public place is different, never disputed that.

No, I'm saying you're just making up crap, pulling it out of thin air. I'm saying your statement that he was just distracted on the phone and didn't know he was carrying a rifle around a Walmart makes no sense. Are you a liberal?

Obviously you just make stuff up:

You claimed there are missing frames, the video has been doctored, etc. Then later:

"I downloaded it in HQ. I was mistaken. Some of it was sped up 4 times, but not the critical seconds. "

So, I ask again, are you as sure about the video as you were about the Akron law on BB guns? You were full of baloney on that one:

"If police learned that a father was showing a minor how to shoot a BB gun in their basement, they could be arrested. "

You cited *part* of 137.11:

"Akron (§ 137.11) prohibits any person under age 18 from possessing any air gun or ammunition for an air gun. The parent or guardian of any person under age 18 is prohibited from knowingly permitting the person under age 18 from using or possessing an air gun or air gun ammunition. "

Except 137.11 also says:

C.

The provisions of this section do not prohibit or render it unlawful to use or possess any airgun or ammunition for purposes of instruction in firearm safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control o f a responsible adult.

Doh!