OT: Car Daytime Running Light Switch

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After serious thinking Ed Pawlowski wrote :

That's true, and it was somebody else (not you) who said that DRLs were proven to increase visiblity 'even in low visibility conditions' so I'm willing to overlook that whole idea. The answer to my 'why not' question is then that there was cost but no proven benefit.
That is exectly what they say about DRLs in the daytime without the 'low visibility' conditional. There is no proven benefit to them, and there is cost albeit not very much cost (only about 2 million gallons of gasoline per year in the US according to math which you apparently disagree with) to having them mandated.
The Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's study laid out the methodology and the reasons for the differences between their methodology and the European and Canadian studies. Their conclusion was that there was no statistically significant reduction in crashes of passenger vehicles to warrant having them mandated. They mention cost in fuel only peripherally with this statement:
"In addition to glare, there are concerns that DRLs might make motorcycles, pedestrians, and pedalcyclists less conspicuous and that DRLs would increase fuel consumption and have an adverse impact on the environment"

Rotation speed is almost irrelevant, and I disagree with the wasting power idea unless you are not talking about electrical power. Sure, the spinning is useless and tha added weight to the vehicle (which is almost as negligible as the spinning) adds to fuel consumption.
The alternator rotor is practically just a rotating mass on ball bearings until you draw current from the stator windings, it is then that the (opposing) stator fields make the rotor physically harder for the internal combustion engine to rotate - which causes it to consume fuel at a slightly faster rate.
Oh, and no fruit was harmed in the making of this post.
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Tue, 13 Sep 2016 01:34:31 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

The jury seems to be out on whether or not DRL is of any real benefit. Did you read the url FromTheRafters posted?
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On 9/13/2016 7:36 PM, Diesel wrote:

Does not matter any more. With the versatility of led lighting they are as much or more of a style feature than safety.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You're correct. I have often thought the whole business with these new- style DRLs is a contest to see which company/model can come up with the weirdest "eyebrows".
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Mon, 12 Sep 2016 21:32:02 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

The more power demands on the alternator, the more resistance to being turned it places on the engine, which forces the engine to work that much harder. IE: more fuel is consumed to keep the alternator turning at the rpms desired. You aren't just providing additional power to the headlights themselves for DLR, you're also providing additional power to the circuitry (possibly including a 12volt relay) that allows DLR to function. So you can't really say that because your headlights in DLR mode are only using 6volts that's all the additional power that's required. It's not. You still have a relay/possible other electronics to feed too. You don't get anything for free.

Apples and oranges.
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On 9/12/2016 9:09 PM, Diesel wrote:

Nothing is free, but you pay to spin that shaft anyway, power used or not. No way to stop it is there.
Put a meter on it and tell me what the actual difference is as you turn the drl's off and on.

Put a clutch on the alternator if you want to save.
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Tue, 13 Sep 2016 01:42:27 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

You realize, the headlights themselves (for DRL) aren't the only devices now using additional power when fired up, right? A 12volt relay (multiple in some cases/configurations) is also in play. Along with additional circuitry to tell the relay to come on/go off, etc. None of this is free.

We'd most likely have to use an electric clutch like the one on AC compressors. So, we'll need additional circuitry to monitor the voltage on the bus to determine if we need to engage it or not. And, this allows for more points of failure with the clutch assembly and or required support circuitry. We're making this more complicated to do what exactly? What gain would we get by doing this?
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On 9/13/2016 7:36 PM, Diesel wrote:

They are not really known. I didn't say it was practical. I take issue with them as it was not measured, just calculated from a questionable base.
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You're forgetting a few things. The energy spent converting 'ethanol' for those few teaspoons. You're also neglecting the fact that although the lights are on half power for daytime running, (I'm going to use the lifted s10 for the example, as I've already examined it) it's using a 12volt relay to provide power for daytime running lights. So, I'm wasting current with an additional relay, additional wiring, likely a resistor (or another circuit doing the same thing) to drop the voltage by half; wasting it as heat most likely.
More wire, More plastic in the relay box (for the additional relay that runs DLR) additional circuitry, more power consumption, more electronics.. for little/if any real benefit possibly! for some! other cars coming in my direction. And, that's just what the vehicle itself is wasting. Not even including the additional material used to create the additional space in the box to hold the relay, or the materials used to construct the relay. Make a few million of those and the by product waste starts to add up.
For cars using electronics and no actual relay, it's more wasteful in terms of by products and energy used to create the additional circuitry and components.
It's also another point of potential failure within the cars electrical system. More devices, more complicated circuitry, the higher the chances of failure.

I personally don't worry about it, I tend to disable them. I don't see any real benefit to shortening the life of my headlights. I recently acquired a car that also has daytime running lights, and since the headlight control switch failed (I'm not about to spend 80 dollars for it) I resorted to mapping it out with a meter and toggle switched everything, except the daytime run lights. It also uses a 12volt powered relay to run them. Waste of resources, waste of time. Very little (if any) gain by having them.
Oh.. yes, references, proof, I'm sure you'll be requesting them... I'm going to borrow FTR's post with the useful url
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811029
No real significant advantage to having DLR in the USA; aside from an increased risk of a crash involving a cyclist and/or pedestrian.
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Perhaps if you were better acquainted with the facts, this wouldn't puzzle you so much. The actual energy consumed by a daytime running light is only a few watts. And they have been proven to significantly decrease trafffic accidents, particularly in conditions of poor visibility.
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Doug Miller was thinking very hard :

Did I say that I was puzzled?
They neglected to include taillights in the DRL because the energy hit wasn't thought to be offset by the safety increase.
and then there's this:
http://i66.tinypic.com/2rwl3yd.jpg
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You didn't have to say so. It was self-evident.
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Doug Miller submitted this idea :

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811029
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It happens that FromTheRafters formulated :

I find it completely unsurprising that in the intervening years of handshaking, backslapping, and palm greasing that a study can be found which gives the desired results. I went looking and so far found only this:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2009-06-29/pdf/E9-15314.pdf
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The analysis evaluates the effects of daytime running lights (DRLs) against three types of target crashes: (1) two-passenger- vehicle crashes excluding rear-end crashes, (2) single-passenger- vehicle to pedestrians/cyclists crashes, and (3) single- passenger-vehicle to motorcycle crashes. Each crash type was examined at three crash severity levels ? fatal, injury, and all severity. The basic approach is a control-comparison analysis of real-world crash involvements for DRL-equipped vehicles and non-DRL vehicles. Ratio of odds ratios were used to derive the DRL effects. A 95-percent confidence interval was used to infer statistically significant conclusions. The Fatality Analysis Reporting System and the State Data System were the crash data sources used for this analysis.
The analysis found that DRLs have no statistically significant overall effects on the three target crashes. When combining these three target crashes into one target crash, the DRL effects were also not statistically significant. When examined separately for passenger cars and light trucks/vans (LTVs), DRLs in LTVs significantly reduced LTVs? involvements in the target two-vehicle crashes by 5.7 percent. However, the remaining DRL effects on these three target crashes were not statistically significant. Although not statistically significant, DRLs might have unintended consequences for pedestrians and motorcyclists. Particularly, the estimated negative effects for LTVs were relatively large and cannot be completely ignored. 17. Key Words
ROFL. I figured you'd quote a reputable source soon enough. [g]
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Diesel pretended :

Perhaps if he had been better acquainted with the facts, this wouldn't have puzzled him so much.
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Mon, 12 Sep 2016 20:56:27 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I don't think facts factor much in some cases here. Some of the posters remind me of virus_guy actually. Take for example the ill conceived notion that John McCain was a hero. I'm sure his surviving shipmates would disagree with that statement.
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Mon, 12 Sep 2016 03:01:55 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Is it just me, or, do some of the posters here remind you of virus_guy? :)
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It happens that Diesel formulated :

Yes. I think it is the schoolboy level attempts at denigration that remind me of him. I usually gave him and Ray some leeway though because of the humor in their retorts.
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