OT. Another "black box"

Thieves have some gizmo that disables car alarms and unlocks the doors. From CBS Chicago: http://tinyurl.com/mzx7shg
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 02:51:22 -0600, Dean Hoffman

Not surprising. Thieves have been stealing alarmed cars for a long time already, this just makes it easier. Locking your car just keeps the 10 years olds out of it.
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And makes less marginally less embaressing when you call the insurance company (grin)
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 02:51:22 -0600, Dean Hoffman

There are actually 2 paths these sort of things can exploit. I believe this one just overloads the key fob receiver by sending all of the available codes in a short period of time. The more insidious devices crack into the "OnStar" (or similar) interface. That gives them even more capability.
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On Friday, February 28, 2014 11:14:32 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

It would sure have to be one crappy design if the car allows that to happen. More logical would be if it gets too many codes in a short time, it ignores any more for some period of time. And I would think that there isn't a list of codes, it's a pseudo random rolling sequence, like garage door openers have used for decades, apparently successfully. The car and the fob are synched and generate pseudo random codes to the same algorithmn, but even that is based on a random starting point. Not clear to me how you can easily overcome any of that.
The more insidious devices

If you can crack into that, unless you crack into and have access to the Onstar system at it's source, i would think you'd face problems similar to the above.
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On 2/28/2014 11:41 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Considering the history of designs of the automobile you know it can't happen.
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On Friday, February 28, 2014 12:05:46 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I'm still trying to figure out the big fuss over at GM with the recall of millions of cars. From what I can see, there were 30 accidents and 6 deaths because the ignition switch turned the car off and apparently people can no longer deal with that. How many cars have all kinds of failures everyday that results in the engine quitting? Like running out of gas? But 30 ignition switches shutoff and the result is death and destruction? With the switch off, the air bags won't deploy, but from the pics I saw on TV, the wrecks they showed didn't appear survivable with or without an air bag. Nothing left of the car, the driver wasn't wearing a seat belt. Not sure if it was that accident or another one, but some of them, the drivers had been drinking. But, heh, it's all GM's fault..
IMO a little bit of driver ed in the parking lot, showing students how the steering and brakes react when the car loses power would be a better idea than the big recall of 10 year old cars.
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Per snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net:

I wonder what it does to the power steering and power brakes.
Just to be prepared, I tried cutting the engine on my '72 Chrysler going down a gravel road.
I'm probably stronger than most and I was barely able to apply the brakes hard enough to have much effect. And the steering was really a bear.... I can't imagine the average woman being able to steer that thing with the engine dead.
What's even worse to me is the way my '98 Suburban handled a failed alternator. It let the engine suck the battery dry... then the engine just suddenly died leaving not even enough juice to power the hazard lights. Almost no brakes, almost impossible to steer, and no way to put the flashers on..... i.e. if it happened on a freeway for most drivers the vehicle would probably wind up drifting to a dead stop in a traffic lane. Very bad Ju-Ju.
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wrote:

And you had NO indication the alternator had failed??? The check engine light DEFINITELY came on. If you had the hvac blower running, it slowed down. Your signals slowed down. It it was at night your heaslights got weak. If it was not dark, and the heater fan was not running you had almost 2 hours of driving without the alternator before the engine died, and if you restarted it within an hour of the failure it would have cranked slowly. My brother drove from Elkhart Indiana to London Ontario with his van towing a trailer with a dead alternator and was still able to drive into s service center when it got too dark to drive without headlights. I had to drive from Waterloo to London with a spare battery and cables to get him started - and driving home I had his battery on charge in my vehicle so we could switch again if necessary.. Made it home 100km (1 hour) with only 4 ways - using my headlights running ahead of him.
At highway speeds as long as the traffic is not heavy, you can guide a totally dead vehicle to the side of the road and let it coast to a stop even if it has power steering and brakes. At low speeds in town is when the fun starts!!
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Per snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca:

No doubt, the vehicle tried to tell me some way or another - if nothing else, the battery charge rate would have dropped to zero.
But if I am driving, I'm not studying the dashboard. An audible alarm would get my attention. A blinking light probably would too. But low numbers on gauges definitely get lost for me.
Yeah, "instrument scan" and all that.... but in practice, I'm looking at the road and my mirrors.
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On Saturday, March 1, 2014 2:46:57 PM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

I know someone that had a very similar experience in an SUV. The alternator had failed and from the first indication they had to the car going dead was just a couple of miles, enough to make a parkway exit, but that was it. I agree that you sure would think you'd get a lot more notice, but either they didn't or whatever notice there was was not attention grabbing.
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On 2/28/2014 3:20 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

One thing I did not see, does it also lock up the steering wheel? IIRC you are in NJ. Picture the Garden State Parkway, 8 AM, at 75 mph and you are in the middle lane when the engine dies and steering wheel locks up. I don't want to be behind you on a curve.
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On Friday, February 28, 2014 11:47:27 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

No, from everything I've read or seen on TV, no mention of it locking the steering wheel. If it did, 99.9% chance that they would have included that. They said the key just moves from on to the ACC position, which in any car I've had, did not lock the wheel.
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On Saturday, March 1, 2014 6:05:43 AM UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:



s

,

Yep. I have had cars with locking steering wheels from when they first cam e out ?37? ford to modern day and none of them would lock without turning t he key full off. Automatics nowadays can't belocked until the trannyi is i n Park.
As for how one acts with no power to brakes steering? Stiff but not that b ad. I once pushed my 70 yoa mother over 20 miles in her dead car through a town with 3 stoplights. She had no problem. Why "push"? All I had was a chain and that resulted in horrible jerks and yanks going up/down hills. N ot that hard to synchronize speeds to achieve a gentle nudge recontacting at the bottom of a hill.
Harry K
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

There is also a receiver thing that, when you hit the fob to lock it, grabs the signal and the codes. Then clone it. Easy Peasy.
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On Friday, February 28, 2014 11:51:26 AM UTC-5, Kurt Ullman wrote:

It's not easy at all. Not if it uses rolling pseudo random codes like all the garage door openers use today, which AFAIK is what they do use in cars. That technology has existed for decades and you can't defeat it by just grabbing a code. Having the current code just sent doesn't do any good, because the next time the code gets sent it's completely different from the one that was just sent. The transmitter and the receiver are both on the same pseudo random rolling sequence and you can't figure that out by just grabbing a code or two that is sent.
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