Nothing personal but your posts confused me some as well. You use "they" a whole lot when it would be much cleared if you used "front loader", "high eff top loader", and "top loader" more. Imho, with three different categories pronouns are more confusing. Again, nothing personal.
Angsty is confused deliberately. I'll take your advice under consideration in the future.
No argument from me on your first point.
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Have you actually priced the HE detergents vs. non-HE? I have found that if you compare the various brands - brand for brand - the price is the same for the same size container and the number of loads listed on both is *exactly the same*. I even called the manufacturer of my FL washer and asked them about the "uses less detergent" claim. How can you be using less if you get the same number of loads from each container of the same size. The CSR stumbled over her words and couldn't come up with a good answer. Granted, the HE detergent supposedly rinses out better which is good since there is less water, but the HE detergent is no more expensive than non-HE, nor do you actually use less.
Can't say...won't disagree
blem with front loaders.
Widely reported, yet also widely disputed. Recall the thread a few months ago where someone posted - in panic prose - all of the dangers regarding mold, smells, etc. related to front-loaders? Every response (including mine) was contradictory to those reports. I've get no mold and my cloths don't smell.
AE asked: "what are their advantages over a *front loader*?
Your answer certainly states the advantage over a traditional top loader as far as dry-time, but I don't see that as an advantage over a front loader. My FL spins at 1100 RPM and I know there are faster machine available. Some fabrics come out almost wearable right from the washer. Are you saying that the top-loaders you are referring to have a *bigger* dry-time advantage over most FL than a FL has over a traditional TL? If not, then it doesn't answer AE's question.
Again, the question was:
"what are their advantages over a *front loader*?
BTW - which TL are you referring to? I looked into a TL that used an octagonal basket and rotated on the horizontal access. The drawback was that the opening into the basket was pretty small. I can shove armloads of towels or comforters into my FL with one push. The TL I was looking at had to have the items fed in (and removed) almost one at time. If I'm not mistaken, Staber and Equator both make horizontal axis top loaders, and they are a great deal more expensive than a typical front loader.
What models/brands are you extolling the virtues of?
with front loaders.
Asked and answered previously.
Go stand in the dunce corner with Angsty.
Newer ones use moisture sensors to turn off instead of running on time, which may save a little money. Last time we just replaced the washer, the dryer hadn't shown any problems.
problem with front loaders.
One has to wonder about the confidence you have in your statements when you won't answer a direct question.
I guess that tells us how seriously to take what you say.
problem with front loaders.
All it means is that I don't spend a lot of time trying to teach pigs to sing - for all the obvious reasons.
Continue to wallow in your ignorance, piggy.
y. -- Joseph Campbell
Few years ago our then 46 year old (same age as our eldest) dryer conked out. Open winding inside the motor. If it was a single ended motor would have been fixed long ago cos. have extra, single ended motors! But this model (Kenmore) has pulleys on both ends of motor one for the drum amd one for the blower.
So it was replaced by a used dryer of indeterminate age that cost one dozen beer and 'take it away please'. In our storeroom we have another dryer, which cost nothing which we had lent to a divorced lady a few years ago, which she no longer needs. She now has a new house, a new washer/dryer and a new husband!
In my sons garage is a used dryer, got free, that was said to be working perfectly and previous to that son bought a washer dryer pair for $200 which has worked fine in an apartment he rented out.
Anyway based on all that anecdotal ................ don't be foolish. Run any appliance until it isn't worth fixing. Then buy (or get free) a good used one and use that. Our free dishwasher cost virtually nothing to fix; am on our third used stove, I think last time we 'bought' a stove was around 1980? Or maybe was 1970?
Our 20-25 year old washer was repaired; using the tub out of a washer my daughter had scrapped because it's agitator shaft wore out! Poor batch of South American steel was rumoured?
It makes big difference not to have any debt for domestic appliances. They are only just useful machines. Come to think of it a young family is building a new house across the street. They probably have washer and dryer at their existing location but they are welcome to one of our spare dryers if needed .................. and I know how to hook em up.
Haven't tried front loader yet; used an Italian model in Middle East, found it slow and rather small.
Oh, by the way here is our quick and dirty method of calculating how much interests costs on new consumer debt. Say I go out and buy $1000 of appliances, on credit financing and pay it off over three years. That's an average amount owing of roughly $500.
1) At say 5% interest it will cost me about 0.05 x 500 =3D 25 per year for each of the three years and also pay off the principal amount of $1000. So interest 3 x 25 plus 1000 =3D 1075 So it will cost me 7.5% TOTAL interest. That's about $30 per month for 36 months. 2) At ten percent interest rate rit would cost me $50 per year for interest plus the $1000 =3D $1150 or about $32/month 3) At 20% rate will cost me $100/yr; that's $300 + 10000 =3D $1300 or $36/month. 4) At 30% interest (some credit cards!) cost is $150/yr plus $1000 =3D $1450 or $40/month.Understanding am preaching to the converted but ..................... Total interest cost.
1) Is $75 on purchase of $1000. 7.5% 2) Is $150 on $1000 purchase. 15% 3) Is $300 on $1000. 30%. Ouch! 4) Is $450 on $1000. 45% Double ouch. 5) One can certainly see that the worst combination is a high interest rate and a longer time period. And triple ouch if one can fix something for a few hours work and say $50. AND save something else from being scrapped/dumped!!!!Also btw just think of really what a house; mortgaged costs.
This from a 'proper' site that calculates amortization ....................
$200,000 at 5% for 30 years. Total Repaid: $386510.40 Total Interest Paid: $186510.40 Interest as percentage of Principal: 93.255%, many, many, ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Monthly $1074
Our dryer runs about 45 minutes once per person in household (one or two, average 1.5) maybe twice week? Say three times week (average) to use say 4800 watts, for part of the
45 mins, not continuously and under control of the thermostat. Assume heater runs 80% of the 45 minutes =3D 36 minutes at 4800 watts =3D 36/60 x 0.48 =3D 2.9 kilowatt hours. Since our cost is 10 cents per.kwhr. that's 29 cents three times a week. Or roughly one dollar per week. Assume none of the energy is saved because the hot damp air is dumped outside. As it should be! Use a metal flex hose (fire insurance reasons). Even with a big family it's probably around $5/week. Not even the cost of small dry-cleaning!Random thought anyway. Cheers
a problem with front loaders.
It interesting that those can't post reasonable answers to direct questions are the same folks that request that their posts not be archived.
What does it say about a person who decides that he doesn't want his insults and blatherings to be preserved for all to share?
I know...that's a direct question, so we shouldn't expect a direct answer.
problem with front loaders.
Please hold your breath, DopeyDad.
as a problem with front loaders.
Called that one from a mile away!
Called that one from a mile away! =================================================
No offense, but what takes y'all so long to recognize an asshole, who pays an itty bitty amount of rent to his moms, and then boasts about his 7 year ROI geothermal plans?
Saltyass has been an arrogant prig for nigh-on a year (that I can recall), yet *I'm* made out to be the bad guy -- I guess cuz I recognize them early on, before everyone else recognizes their churlish idiocy.
Inyway, it's good you called him on his mis-read and mis-answer to my Q. He has shown his true colors -- again.
You two really should go get a room.
No argument from me on your first point. ===================================================
You mean you don't recognize SaltyAss's misread of my Q?? And now his refusal to acknowledge his misread? What exactly am I deliberately confused about? You think SaltyAss's response to DerbyDad was appropriate??
Bottom line is, Saltyass has *no idea* of the relevant diffs between an HE toploader and a front loader. For once THAT asshole should supply cites to support his edict-like claims.
Which is SaltyAss code for, "I done been caught -- again -- and can't wiggle out". You should get yer mom to buy you a subscription to Consumer Reports.
rcy. -- Joseph Campbell
Figure that out all by yourself? On the other hand, if you're paying
15%, which is a more typical rate unless you have bad credit, $150 extra instead of walking around in wet clothes or driving to the laundry and piling in quarters doesn't sound bad to me.Except you're only looking again at one side of the equation. First, the interest and property taxes are tax deductible, That cuts the actual cost to you for the interest paid to more like $140,000. Figure $5k a year in property taxes and that takes off another $37K in Fed tax savings. Meaning you only actually paid about $103K in interest. So, you're real monthly outlay is $842, and only $286 of that is finance cost and taxes, the rest is paying down the loan. And we know from history that at the end of 30 years, you're house is likely to be worth 2X or more than what you bought it for. Sure looks a hell of a lot better living in a house than a $1000 a month apartment, both from quality of life and financially.
mercy. -- Joseph Campbell
To us it is mainly a matter of economics. We can buy an awful lot of electrcity for the cost of a new dryer (or washer) even it were (which is doubtful) more efficient! And since our electrcity is produced from hydro-power (which is presumably much less polluting that burning gas,oil or, god-forbid, 'coal') one doesn't feel too guilty about not dumping or recycling older 'inefficient' machines. In fact the industrial cost and pollution of manufacturing new machines is probably higher?
mercy. -- Joseph Campbell
Good point and arises from fact am unfamiliar with the USA.
Here in Canada we can in no way claim any deduction for property taxes or mortgage interest. Basically we pay full price for everything. We pay federal and provincial (same thing as a state tax) and we also pay sales taxes on most things we buy; except most foods. BTW my property taxes are no way close to $5K. More like one fifth of that including water and sewer services.
The average cost of a new family home here is now around
250,000-350,000. And generally there is some worry about what will happen when mortgage interest rates creep up! Government has recently regulated length of mortgages to avoid some of those impossible mortgage products that caused credit problems.But Canada is a large country (larger than USA) with a widespread population one tenth that of the USA. and we do have to pay for various governemnt services; including universal health care which takes about 6% to 8% of our GDP; but does cover everybody.
And currently; the Canadian economy is improving quite rapidly; causing concern because the value of the Can. dollar is rising too fast!
The comment appreciated. Obvious that Americans value home ownership; well done USA.
mainly to match the washer, but it turned out to be a good investment, as the drying cycles are significantly shorter, and I'm thinking it has payed for itself in 3 years due to reduced fuel use. Allowing it to stop when the clothes are dry is a lot better than some abstract amount of time.
The "old way" for a dryer to determine the moisture in the clothes was to measure the outlet temperature. If the temperature went up that was a sign that the clothes were drying and the heat was cut off. The heat was turned on and off to maintain the outlet temperature at a certain level. If you set the timer for "very dry" then you would end up holding the temperature higher for a longer time. This, indeed, wastes energy.
The "new way" measures the conductivity of the clothes as they brush by some insulated electrodes in the dryer. If the sensor says they are dry then it cuts the heat. Typically, when the heat goes off the moisture in the "center" of the pile of clothes migrates to the rest of the laundry and the moisture sensor once again "sees" moisture. BUT in the "new way" more heat is only applied when there is actual moisture.
The "new way" can save energy. But the smart way to save energy is to have a good idea in the first place of how long the drying cycle should be.
In winter your drying is sending warm/moist air outside. In summer, once the clothes are dry the machine is sending conditioned air outside.
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