I'll dip my toe in this pointless discussion- a banned-gun island in the
middle of a non-banned area is close to meaningless. There are no <border
controls> around DC, Chicago, et al. All people (black-market gun resellers,
usually not end users) have to do is drive an hour, and drive home. Most
big-city violence is not done by educated people with marketable job skills-
it is done by people to whom the city (or their local neighborhood) is their
entire universe, who are incapable of even conceiving of living elsewhere,
and voting with their feet. There are parts of this medium-size city like
this- they have been undergoing 'revitilization' for 30-40 years, with 3rd
and 4th generation residents who keep asking 'why doesn't somebody do
something?'. All the while, there are stable and safe neighborhoods less
than a mile away. But they ain't 'home'.
Standard disclaimer- yeah, I own guns. But I wish there was a way to keep
stupid or intoxicated or drugged-up people from having them available when
their anger or desperation overpowers their common sense or fear of
punishment. (A five-minute time horizon tends to lead to doing stupid
Yep. Consider a New Orleans resident who was forcibly relocated to, say,
Salt Lake City. His immediate reaction: "Damn! You means all I has to do is
stand behind dis counter and make Slurpees and I's gets PAID? Shit, man,
It's a revelation to the fifth-generation poor.
Since, as you say, a banned-gun island is close to meaningless, wouldn't
that argue convincingly for abandoning the banned-gun island so that the
righteous folk there would have some way of defending themselves?
As for whackos getting guns, well, you can't build a house without making
Goblins getting guns is the price we have to pay so the rest of us can
protect ourselves from goblins getting guns. Wait...
Japan and England are islands with strict gun control,yet they still have
gun crimes.In this day and age,there's no such thing as a gun-free zone.
BTW,police and government lose firearms a lot.
Then there's smuggling and home manufacture of guns.
Australian police caught a guy making 100's of handguns illegally and he
had already sold many on the black market.
Even a "total" civilian gun ban would not keep guns out of the hands of
All gun control does is make it safer for the criminals.
My high school English teacher hated bumper sticker wisdom,
claiming that a short, catchy phrase does not an argument make.
But I still think this says it all:
If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns.
If that has to be explained to someone, well, then they probably
should not be carrying a gun.
and worse,you can't keep your government in line.
that is the true reason for the 2nd Amendment.
(see Declaration of Independence..)
People tend to overlook that criminals can carry OTHER items as weapons,and
the best defense for most people IS a handgun.
No other item is as effective,for the widest range of
people(elderly,handicapped,small,outnumbered),with as low a risk to
Gun control laws have to be national in order to do any good. Municipal
gun control laws merely make crooks get guns from out of town.
Meanwhile, national gun control laws will probably fly about as well in
USA as Prohibition did.
What I do think we need is repeal of a few of USA's 28,000 gun laws,
1. The one banning computer records of gun sales where law enforcement
can trace from.
So when a gun is traced from a crime, law enforcement has to go to the
gun shop where the gun was sold and look at a paper record of who the gun
was sold to.
2. The law allowing only ATF to make routine inspections of those
3. The law allowing anyone to get a license (FFL) to buy/sell guns across
state lines as long as there is no criminal record or record of mental
illness found within some time limit (I forget - 30 days?). This
license has a stated intent of being for gun shops. However, this license
cannot be denied on basis of lacking commerical property, business license
if located where one is required, etc.
Last time I checked, about 75,000 people had this license. There are
nowhere near that many gun shops. Many have their addresses being
non-gun-related businesses such as gas stations, or residences.
I'm sure probably 60,000-plus of those license holders without gun shops
do nothing worse than get guns to their friends and relatives without
sales tax. But with 75,000 of these licenses around and limitations on
inspecting records, it gets a little tough to find the couple thousand or
whatever who are selling guns to criminals.
I know, fixing this is mere drops in a bucket.
- Don Klipstein ( firstname.lastname@example.org)
I don't remember the details offhand, and don't care enough to look them up,
but I do know the number of FFLs in current status went WAY down with the
last set of revisions to the law, and the price increase for the renewal, up
to something like 200 bucks, now. Most of the 'kitchen table' dealers are
now out of the business, just like they wanted. And you do pretty much have
to have a business address. And yeah, it can be the same building as a bait
shop/gas station. (Pretty common in rural areas.)
Personally, I miss being able to buy guns at the local ma'n'pa hardware,
like was dirt common when I was a kid. People didn't demonize or worship
guns back then, any more than you would a fishing rod or a crowbar. They
were what they were, and nobody really thought about it a whole lot. And
when you gave a kid a .22 at age 13 or so, and taught them how to shoot it,
the 'forbidden fruit' aspect was close to nil.
As to banning them- sure, just as soon as everyone else turns theirs in,
I'll give mine up.
Prior to 1968 (1968 GCA),guns were sold in hardware stores,could be mail-
ordered,no ID needed,could be bought across state lines,and yet gun crime
was low.Of course,the drug and gang cultures had yet to appear.
WHO in their right mind wants only the GOVERNMENT and criminals to have all
The US was -created- by the armed overthrow of the incumbent
government(Britain),by CITIZEN arms.
and it began when Britain moved to DISARM the colonists.
Who said I had a handgun? I ain't that rich. Just the vintage Belgium
Browning bolt-action .22 I got as a kid (which I understand may actually be
worth a few bucks now), and one of those cheap plastic-stocked Mossberg
'special service' 12-gauge pumps with the short barrel and 5-shot magazine.
I wouldn't mind having a stainless mini-14, but paying off the mortgage
comes first. Ammo is so damn expensive these days, and non-club legal
shooting areas so hard to arrange, that I haven't done any recreational
shooting in years. 12 gauge with 00 buck doesn't take much aiming. (Light
loads so as to not go through more than 1 wall.)
email@example.com (Don Klipstein) wrote in
What good is an AK for personal self-defense outside the home?
Do you think that average people can defend themselves against criminals
that are bigger,stronger or more numerous,carrying guns OR other items as
weapons? Ya think a woman being stalked by an ex or other wacko is going to
carry an AK or shotgun? Or the elderly person going to the store,a nice
target for crooks? But they CAN use a handgun effectively,and with the
least risk to themselves.
A primary advantage of handguns is that they CAN be concealed,and then the
crook does not know you are armed,and does not plan for it.
Open carry leaves you vulnerable,everybody knows you have the gun.
And despite ANY handgun ban,local or national,criminals STILL get
handguns,besides saeed-off shotguns, and rifles,in EVERY country on Earth.
firstname.lastname@example.org (Don Klipstein) wrote in
BATF-troop has been cracking down on FFL holders and has drastically
reduced the number of FFL holders;there used to be far more than the 75K
you mention.Now a FLL can lose their licens eover a simple error on their
paperwork,like a misspelling or other meaningless human error.
It's interesting that Vermont allows concealed carry with NO permit
needed;you carry if you wish to,and yet they don't seem to have any problem
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