K & T wiring

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Nate Nagel wrote:

Last year my 91 Stang was t-boned by a 97 Chevy Blazer (the other ran the red at a high speed). The Stang only came equipped with one driver's side air bag in the steering wheel. The airbag did not deploying as the impact was from the side. As a result of the accident I had to be extricated from the car and suffered three fractures to my pelvis, two broken ribs, a haemothorax on my left lung, and all the soft tissue damage that goes along with those injuries.
If my vehicle had side air bags I probably would have suffered less major injuries.
This accident had nothing to do with my driving skills only bad luck/ timing.
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a newer vehicle with side curtain airbags would of likely completely protected you
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On 06/06/2010 02:38 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

who can say? Yes this is one instance where a newer vehicle might have helped, but I don't see the point of going deeply into debt just to have a newer vehicle when the odds are against something like that happening.
nate
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the big problem with a really old vehicle say over 25 to 30 years.
if your on a trip a newer vehicle can likely be fixed fast, and your back on your waybut 25 years old few vehicles last that long at least around pittsburgh, so the mechanic may not be familiar with the vehicle and parts more of a hassle.
if our on a trip a newere vehicle will be easier to get fixed fast.
and service on everything today is all about speed
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In my experience, parts pretty much always have to be ordered "from the warehouse" no matter what. there's just too many different makes, models,a nd years, no parts store is going to carry everything for every car.
With a truly old vehicle, and again, 25 years is still pushing it for those actually still in service as a daily driver, but for really old cars like my '55 if I were going to take it on a long trip, I'd probably pack a box in the trunk with a spare fuel pump, water pump, and other easily replaced items just in case, as they are inexpensive enough for older cars that it's no trouble to stock them in your garage for eventualities. With a newer car that would likely be cost prohibitive.
nate
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Hmmm. So one of the left "feeders" is hot, and the other neutral, and the right-hand wires are pairs of hots and neutral, all fused? That's interesting. I'll assume that this is a property you worked on and that this is what you found.
Just looking at the picture, I'd have guessed that two feeders were two hot legs of a 240/120 supply, feeding three pairs of fuses, with the fused wires going out on the right. The other side of the circuits would likely run back to the service entrance, unfused, and go nowhere near the box.
What really stands out for me, whichever it is, is that each of the left-hand wires are each feeding (or being fed by) three fused legs but aren't noticeably heavier gauge. If they're feeding three 20-A circuits (orange fuses) they ought to be, by our standards, 8 ga or heavier. Was this in fact the case?
Chip C Toronto
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wrote:

neutrals:http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/royapples/Old%20hause%20renovat ...
Hmmm. So one of the left "feeders" is hot, and the other neutral, and the right-hand wires are pairs of hots and neutral, all fused? That's interesting. I'll assume that this is a property you worked on and that this is what you found.
Just looking at the picture, I'd have guessed that two feeders were two hot legs of a 240/120 supply, feeding three pairs of fuses, with the fused wires going out on the right. The other side of the circuits would likely run back to the service entrance, unfused, and go nowhere near the box.
What really stands out for me, whichever it is, is that each of the left-hand wires are each feeding (or being fed by) three fused legs but aren't noticeably heavier gauge. If they're feeding three 20-A circuits (orange fuses) they ought to be, by our standards, 8 ga or heavier. Was this in fact the case?
Chip C Toronto
The two wires on the left are feeding the panel. They're #10 conductors, they're sleeved through loom, one is neutral and one is hot. The six wires on the right are #14 conductors sleeved through loom as well. Each circuit has a fuse on both hot and neutral. All of those fused neutrals should have been corrected with solid brass fuse plugs at some later date. The entire house was fed by a 30 amp 120 volt service. This is the service panel. It and the main disconnect panel, which I'll link to are located in the attic, which was also very typical.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/royapples/Old%20hause%20renovation/originalturnofcenturyservicedisconn.jpg
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http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/royapples/Old%20hause%20renovation/originalturnofcenturyservicedisconn.jpg
*Roy is that an asbestos lined wooden box?
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It most certainly is. Both boxes are lined with 1/4" asbestos panels

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On 6/1/2010 2:09 PM RBM spake thus:

>

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/royapples/Old%20hause%20renovation/originalturnofcenturyservicedisconn.jpg
My friend has exactly the same setup in his ca.-1920 house: 4 pairs of fuses, hot & neutral, inside an asbestos-lined wooden box.
He solved the problem neatly by simply overfusing the neutrals: I think he has 30 amp fuses on that side, and he put 15-amp circuit breaker replacement fuses on the hot side. The lower-current breakers will always trip before the higher-current fuses blow.
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Geez my grandfather had a box like that in his workshop but his was slate lined.
Jimmie
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Chip C
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When I was 12 years old we lived in an old (1900) house. It had K & T wiring and screw fuses. One day a damper motor on the furnace overheated and set the ceiling on fire. I called fire department. Parents were both at work trying to exist in the depression. Fire Chief asked where the fuse box was. I showed him and which fuse was on that circuit. He said here is the problem, there is a 15 amp fuse and it should have been a 30 amp. Hello... I knew better than that. Later years I worked on trouble shooting for a utility company. Had a call on an old house that dining room light would not work. Found screw fuse bad. Replaced fuse to check and it blew. The owner said the room had just been painted and painter remove the overhead fixture but he replaced it when paint was dry. I pulled the fixture and found all 4 wires, hot and ground twisted together with one wire nut. Corrected that. On fuse panels on all calls I always removed all fuses to check for any arching on center contact. On this house one fuse had an Indian head penny under it. Lucky it was not the circuit that the fixture was on. Who knows how long that had been there. WW
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The 30 amp fuse on the 15 amp circuit, and the penny under the fuse, may not have been exactly improper. Those old panels had fuses on the neutrals, which can be very dangerous. Ultimately those fuses were replaced with solid brass fuse plugs, but I'm sure penny's worked just as well.

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*You are better off not touching the K&T wiring. If it works, leave it alone. If you want to add outlets run new home runs.
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CALL some home owner insurance companies ASK if they will insure a new customer with K&T. Please report back here your findings.
if they wouldnt sell new policies you might as well replace ALL the K&T since its impossible to get a mortage without homeowners insurance
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Why should I do that? Do you think no homes with K&T are insured? I've gotten policies from three companies for homes with K&T.
Cable became popular in the 1940s to save labor, but I'll bet K&T was safer.
I believe the NEC requires an inspection after loose insulation is put into a space with K&T. CA and WA dropped that requirement because not a single fire had resulted from insulation on K&T.
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wrote:

I'm afraid you might have just pushed Hallerb over the edge
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On 6/2/2010 1:37 AM, J Burns wrote:

Yes, and i've got 4 rentals with K&T in them. I even asked my agent about it. He said they could care less. It's not a hazard. And yes, there's blown cellulose on top of it in the attic and down the walls.
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Insurance companies don't generally ask what kind of wiring you have.
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