I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

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Did they also tell you Muratic Acid will corrode China and abs pipe so use carefully , not the best thing to do to often don.t recomend to people as there is some danger of boil up in the boil if the water you use is to hot . Also open your window as sulpharic acid fumes will be produced. Have only used once in 27 yrs of plumbing if you know how to snake you won't need to.
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wrote:

You can't put a snake up a bowl rim, right? Yes acid vs use in a toilet has been discussed here - previous.
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as i said you put it in wait 15 minutes and flush 15 times, normally toilet water isnt hot, and i always say open window take deep breathe, poor get out shut door.
snake cant clean interior sediment..........
acid sounds scary but really it isnt, and no worse than other stuff like drain cleaner
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jim wrote:

Muriatic acid does not affect any of the usual plastics, and I don't see a problem with ABS. Once mixed with water, it produces only very minimal fumes. (More concentrated muriatic acid produces more significant fumes, though not in huge amounts.) Its fumes are not anything sulfuric, but hydrogen chloride (which are harmful if inhaled in strong concentrations - they form hydrochloric acid in lungs and anyplace else wet/moist).
Muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid. Freshman college chemistry classes and some highschool chemistry classes have students using hydrochloric acid in 6-molar concentration, which has pH less than zero. However, a skin splash of this is pretty much a non-event if it is rinsed off right away. I would not want to get it in my eyes - but they say it's not the worst thing that can happen - they say strong alkalis are worse on skin and eyes, and have greater urgency to rinse away and neutralize with weak opposite. (Strong oxidizing acids such as nitric are worse, and concentrated sulfuric also causes nasty dehydration reactions, including carbonization of sugar. Battery acid is sulfuric, but not concentrated enough to carbonize sugar. The bad effects here are mainly from chemical aspects other than acidity, and not problems of muriatic/hydrochloric.)
I would worry about china, and use muriatic acid only rarely and keep exposure to limited amount of time and still not be surprised if the finish changes.
Muriatic acid will eat away at iron and most steels. It does not do much to copper, but quickly dissolves copper oxide and a few other copper corrosion products such as copper carbonate - and metal oxides and metal carbonates in general. It very slowly attacks solder - so it should be flushed away with very generous amounts of water after a reasonable amount of time. Copper pipes in older/worse condition may sometimes have a solder joint crack or some other little gap plugged up with corrosion that is easily dissolved by acid - and such flaws may start leaking when or shortly after you use the acid. I don't consider this common, but still something to watch for. (Though in my experience drain pipes are usually not copper.)
A few municipalities (primarily Chicago and Philadelphia IIRC) have plumbing codes requiring iron/steel drain pipes from homes to sewer lines. The politically powerful plumbers union lobbies to maintain requirement for heavier weight pipes that require more man-hours in those cities. I would not leave acid sitting in one of those drain lines - flush away with *a lot* of water after several minutes or a fraction of an hour, and still use acid rarely.
Sulfuric acid is sold to plumbers for unclogging pipes. When mixed with water to a concentration much less than something like 84% H2SO4 16% H2O by weight, or close to 75% H2SO4 25% H2O by volume, it loses most of its nasty effects other than acidity (pH probably still something like -.7 at that point as an educated guess).
However, even still, strong acids when mixed with water may generate enough heat to be a problem. But I see at most minor problem here from muriatic, since it already contains a fair amount of water. Pure HCL is not even liquid at room temperature and atmospheric pressure - it is a gas, and liquid hydrochloric is a good part water!
======================================= Do as you oughtta - add acid to water To get your eyes blasted, add water to acid
(Adding small amounts of water to strong acid can cause the mixture to boil and spatter. Not-so-small amounts of water added to strong acid can occaisionally still be a problem if boiling starts before enough water mixes in to cool things. Even if you add acid to water, if you do this in a chemistry lab you should stir/mix to whatever extent is feasible to minimize significant "hotspots" of slightly diluted acid.)
======================================= - Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Questions to expert:
1: HOW MUCH rock salt, water, etc to kill roots.
And how do you actually do it?
Won't the mix just run on over the root and keep going downhill. How to make it stay there surrounding root, so it gets taken-up by it?
2: Muriatic Acid: same questions, basically:
How much, for how long, etc.
Dangers?
3: As for long snakes (toilet-snakes!), don't they come with a bent hollow tube through which you feed the snake down the hole, thus keeping away any *visible* scratches?
Thanks
David
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exposure appears enough. i mix a 25 pound bag of rock salt with hot water in my basement wash tub, put a little down the basement toilet too, one flush with the toilet, mix with some hot water in the washtub, leave some salt. go out for day. so salt water remains in line. the worse the clog the better it works.
might do it two days in a row, if things are bad.
honestly i just do it 4 times a year but always in spring right before trees leaves open. maximum root growth occurs at this time

a quart in a couple doses, 15 minutes apart one dose may be all thats needed. dont do mre often than necessary.
theres a chance it might damage china, or steel drain lines but i havent seen it, thats why i recommend flush 15 times when done, so any remaining acid is washed and diluted.
if the toilet is bad anyway what do you have to lose? and many use drain cleaners with much the same risks without a thought...... so dont fret too much.

yes they do but its only good for a toilet trap clog, and doesnt help a sediment toilet
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Sounds good -- what's the $10 for -- and what do you do with it?
Thanks,
David
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On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 22:36:31 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@panix.com (David Combs) wrote:

Flush it. Cash excites the plumbing, shaking the clog loose.

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10 bucks pays for acid, safety glasses, and plastic gloves. although i put some acid on my hand and nothing happened, just felt a little warm, and i rinsed it off.
a friend with a chemistry degree said its no biggie, and it wasnt. i asked him first
PLUMBERS dont use acid, cause theres no money in it, much more profitable to install a new toliet:(
after all the plumber who posted here said he only used it once in 27 years......... once must of been enough to teach him it wasnt profitable.....
if your contemplating replacing the toilet anyway you have nothing to lose.
acid works when a bucket of water flushes solids fine and a regular flush sees water just swirl around.
please post here if it works
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Similar occurrings here.
I've taken to leaving what I'll call a "dandelion weeder", looks like a big screwdriver but with V-shaped head, on floor near toilet, making it possible to break up the occasional truly huge and almost as hard as rock "bombs".
I also know that a change of diet and of water, like when on a trip out of the country, can result in several days of nothing at all, and then EL GRANDE that no toilet, other than an outdoor latrine, can handle.
Embarrassing -- having to ask for a hammer and chisel! :-)
(BTW, that was a joke, those last three words)
David
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-snip-

I agree-- it isn't that much work to pull the toilet which is the most likely culprit. And if it isn't- snaking the drain sans toilet is infinitely easier.
-snip-

-snip-
I'd go for the rubber one. $5 vs $2 , but easier to install- and the re-usability factor might come in handy if we're all correct in our assumption that one of the rugrats is sending things to the ocean via the sewers.
Jim [oh- and I'd pull it- then if necessary buy a snake. Handy critters to have in the garage on a Saturday night with a house full of company]
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wrote:

Your mindset about snaking is leading you astray and wasting time. I would pull the toilet even just to snake the lines. In fact, I'd pull and re-install the toilet several times, before I'd bother with even going to the workshiop and looking for my snake. It's just not a big deal to pull the toilet, reach your hand in to find the matchbox car and be done with the whole stupid episode. I'll bet you still haven't even tried to reach in from above with your hand. Stop prcrastinating and tryiong to avoid the inevitable. With small kids, you are going to be doing this again at some point.
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On Mar 20, 12:02 pm, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Oh Salty, you somehow know me well. No, I haven't reached into the toilet with my hand yet. I admit to being reluctant to doing this. Yes, I know the water in the toilet bowl is clean (after a fresh flush anyway). I will try to work up the nerve to try it this even IF I don't have any luck with another auging session. Oh, by the way, when I was home for lunch my neighbor was out in his yard and I asked him if he had a snake I could borrow and he said he'd try to dig one up for me out of his basement/garage. I'd bet the ranch he has one, he's got at least one of EVERYTHING.
Thanks again everyone!
Mike
P.S. Cheri - if this doesn't work, I just might try your suggestion! Where did you buy Muriatic Acid anyway?
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The water in the bowl is not clean, there is all sorts of nasties in there. This however is probably not going to be a problem unless you have open sores. Be sure to wash your hands afterwards.
Pull the toilet, carry it out to the lawn, turn it upside down and stuff the garden hose in from the bottom.
After you have cleared the blockage, use a mirror and check the little holes under the rim. Often these get gunked up and having the hose handy makes cleaning and flushing these hole out easy at this point. A chunk of coat hanger wire is handy also
While you have the toilet pulled, if you have any touch up paint left over you can now paint behind the toilet.
Also while you have the toilet out, it is a good time to change the gasket between the tank and the bowl, and clean really good in all the nooks and crannies. If you do not already have one, invest in a 1/4 turn ball valve for the supply and replace the supply line with the good stainless braided line. The price of these parts is a whole lot cheaper than fixing water damage in the future.
If the toilet has ever ran or the internals have ever given you grief, now is a good time to replace them. The FluidMaster fill valve is a reliable brand and a whole lot better than the ball on the rod floats. A good quality flush valve and you are done.
When reinstalling, once you have seated the bowl, and are sure their is no leaks, a small bead of caulk around the base may be a good idea, especially around the front and sides.
Start early in case you need to make multiple trips to the hardware store, or something goes wrong.
--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
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before you pull toilet, confirm does it flush well with a bucket of water??????
if not pull toilet.........
if it flushes fine with a bucket pulling toilet will do no good at all.............
muriatic acid placed carefully will clean out the interior passages of the toilet 20 minutes and 10 bucks if you need saftety glasses.
safe effective fast and cheap. works amazingly well as another poster reported here, i am the one who told him about it:)
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when you flush the toilet actually creates a wave that moves the waste solids into the large bottom drain & trap.
but you must have enough flow to start the wave, over time sediment builds up in the interir water passages bowl rim ald slows the flow of fresh water. at some point stuff just swirls around....
watch under the bowl rim, often gunk built up clogging the exit holes.
you can use a coathanger end to open the holes some but the sediment still fills the bowl rim and cant be reached.
put on safety glasses, plunge drain bowl water, sponge is good idea so bowl is completely empty tank water can remain as is.
put funnel in dip tube top pour a cup or two of acid in funnel. and some in bowl no splashing have window open and take deep breathe first, then leave room shut door wait at least 15 minutes.
then return and flush about 15 times to dilute all remaing acid. you will see brown goo, thats the melted sediment.
this really works
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ALL that and he might just as well spend the $118 and have a new one.
s

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On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:02:58 -0500, "S. Barker"
Yeah, and filled up more landfills. Nice. Toilets aren't disposable or biodegradable items, despite what you think.

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And your point is?
s

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hardware or big box, used for cleaning brick etc
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