How can we "stay a bit cooler" with a dehumidifier? :-)

Anyone else notice the ad for dehumidifiers on Bob Vila's web site, which says "Stay a bit cooler with a dehumidifier"?
If it's 75 F and 80% RH indoors and outdoors, 11.8% of people would find that "too warm," according to the ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard.
Dehumidifiers add about 1600 Btu/pint. An average house with 400 Btu/h-F of conductance and 200 cfm of air leakage would be 79 F with 65% RH with a dehum removing 1 lb/h of water, and 27.3% would find that "too warm."
OTOH, an AC using the same electricity and removing 1500 Btu/h of heat and 1.5 lb/h of water would leave the house 71.3 F and 82% RH indoors, and only 5.1% would find that "too warm." (We can't please everyone-- about 5% of the population will always be dissatisfied.)
Clicking on "How to contact Bob Vila" brings a message saying you can't :-)
Nick
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Try this scenario, almost up your alley. Home without AC.
If you must have weather data, pick Duluth Minnesota. It can get hot there, well above averages. Assume a somewhat inland from Lake Superior.
Small place, 900 square foot main floor, 900 square foot basement, undisturbed R40 blown into ceiling, walls poorly insulated, lathe and plaster, recovered with vinyl siding, similar to 2x4 framed walls. 67,000 Btu/hr 80% AFUE furnace more than adequate for heat loss, no cooling load ever sized but would be no bigger than 1.5 ton.
Basement floor 5.5 ft below grade, 8 foot to under side of joists, main floor 9 foot ceilings.
Basement walls, 10 inch poured concrete, no insulation added.
Windows upgraded to double pane low e. Natural infiltration sufficient to avoid winter condensation, not high enough to warrant use of humidifier.
Large picture window facing east, perhaps 8'x5', two at 3x3 windows west.
North and south walls, two at 3x3 windows. Guessing that eaves overhang by 2 feet and were typically 2 feet above top of windows
Curtains drawn to keep sun out as best it can.
House with basement, basement tends to be cool, like 66F in summer, will get warm upstairs.
Run dehumidifier in basement.
Imagine access door on return air drop, open the access door. Run furnace fan, most return gets drawn from basement, cool thermal storage of air in basement gets re-distributed upstairs.
Upstairs will cool off a couple degrees, below grade effect takes the air from upstairs and sensible heat rejected by dehumidifier, basement temp stabalizes at 68.
End up typically with 78F upstairs humidity less than 60%.
I lived it for a couple summers, dehumidifier made a big difference.
Also helped to have spare bed down in basement.
Need airflow take 67,000 input, 80% afue, 60 degree ATR
snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

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Ah yes... 66.1 F in July, with 55.1 and 77.1 average daily min and max and w = 0.010 (not very humid.)
It can get hot there, well above averages.
A 30-year record max of 97.0...

Unshaded...
Average yearly air (and deep ground) temp: 38.5 F.

For heat :-)

Warming outdoor air to 78 would make the RH 48%...

You mighta froze without it.
Nick
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I actually grew up north of there. They just had about two weeks of 90. Heat wave for there.
It just illustrates how you live for averages.
snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

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Rational people do, if they pay for air conditioning.
Nick
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snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

See
Give you an example how you can actually get by without an air conditioner and you finally relaize that your irrational schemes do not work :)
Your mother must have gone a long way with reverse psychology on you :)
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Nicky could have more simply stated:
A dehumidifier is a net heat producing device. Bob Vila's web site says, "Stay a bit cooler with a dehumidifier." To dateless nerds such as me at Villanova, this seems like an extremely important semantical issue to discuss.
For Christ sake, Nicky - we all know that an operating dehumidifier adds heat to a enclosed space and that it doesn't literally cool the room or its occupants. And we don't need a page full of moronic math & stats to drive the point home. I really doubt that anybody on this newsgroup is impressed with your ability to G&P (Google & Parrot) an endless stream of marginally relevant math, formulas and stats repeated to 10 or 12 significent digits.
Most guys on campus your age are wasting the afternoon out on the quad on a blanket with a sweet young coed. You should be screwing at least one new girl per month or you're wasting your college years. Give it a try.
Gideon
PS: If you are in the divinity program at Villanova, then substitute "choir boy" for either "coed" or "girl" where the paragraph above mentions how often you should be getting laid.
=================================Top posted for the benefit of folks who want to get the newest material in the quickest manner. ================================= snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote in message ... Anyone else notice the ad for dehumidifiers on Bob Vila's web site, which says "Stay a bit cooler with a dehumidifier"?
If it's 75 F and 80% RH indoors and outdoors, 11.8% of people would find that "too warm," according to the ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard.
Dehumidifiers add about 1600 Btu/pint. An average house with 400 Btu/h-F of conductance and 200 cfm of air leakage would be 79 F with 65% RH with a dehum removing 1 lb/h of water, and 27.3% would find that "too warm."
OTOH, an AC using the same electricity and removing 1500 Btu/h of heat and 1.5 lb/h of water would leave the house 71.3 F and 82% RH indoors, and only 5.1% would find that "too warm." (We can't please everyone-- about 5% of the population will always be dissatisfied.)
Clicking on "How to contact Bob Vila" brings a message saying you can't :-)
Nick
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Bob Vila disagrees, as do some homeowners and HVAC people who think it's a good idea to dehum and AC at the same time. And we don't know that doesn't add comfort without a calculation.
Lose the tude, dude.
Nick
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Nicky,
Go get laid. It will do wonders for your attitude and it may even clear up your complexion.
Gideon.
PS: You could be an extremely valuable contributor to this newsgroup and others if you would just come down from those ivory towers and communicate in "English." Drop the pretensions and join us sub-190-IQ folks.
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