home A/C and R-22 - cost per lb

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wrote:

R22 or R410?
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The customer who called me last week, said he was retired. Lives in a big house, his pay- ments must be killing him. And, the real estate market is ded.
He balked at $25 a pound, and $25 labor to put it in. No pleasing everyone. Bet you wish for that price, for your heat pump.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
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AZ, recent visit, less than two weeks ago. Visit from factory recommended and fully certified, etc. cost $49.95 included 'courtesy' pressure checks on 3 zones. BUT,...an empty Heat Pump required 9.5 lb of R22 at $50/lb !! plus tax
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On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:29:02 PM UTC-4, ps56k wrote:

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On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:29:02 PM UTC-4, ps56k wrote:

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Since 2012 the freon price change every day. Todays Price is around $ 60 to 90 Dollar Pound.
On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 6:29:02 PM UTC-4, ps56k wrote:

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The thread is old, but someone is ripping off the people. On ebay you can get a 30 pound jug for around $ 400 to $ 500 . That is around $ 15 per pound.
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The markup helps pay for all the other business expenses. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
The thread is old, but someone is ripping off the people. On ebay you can get a 30 pound jug for around $ 400 to $ 500 . That is around $ 15 per pound.
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As of April 26, 2013, R22 has drastically increased in price for the indust ry, if you you're lucky, you can work with your A/C tech and he'll sell it to you wholesale if there's labor work involved in the sale. It's still goi ng to run you $80/lb and even a small system is gonna set you back $500. Ho pe this is a helpful message and I don't know who is regulating the costs o f R22, but it's more than DOUBLED in the past year or so.
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Thank you, EPA! For meddling in the free market. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
As of April 26, 2013, R22 has drastically increased in price for the industry, if you you're lucky, you can work with your A/C tech and he'll sell it to you wholesale if there's labor work involved in the sale. It's still going to run you $80/lb and even a small system is gonna set you back $500. Hope this is a helpful message and I don't know who is regulating the costs of R22, but it's more than DOUBLED in the past year or so.
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On 4/26/2013 5:10 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

back $500. Hope this is a helpful message and I don't know who is regulating the costs of R22, but it's more than DOUBLED in the past year or so. Continuing to operate an old R-22 air conditioner is fiscally foolish when you realize that the new 18 SEER units use half the energy.
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lating the costs of R22, but it's more than DOUBLED in the past year or so.

While I agree that if it comes to any significant repair, it's time to scrap it, I don't think that translates into it being foolish to continue to operate an R22 system. It depends on the cost of electricity and how much you use it. If you're in a climate and/or situation where it's not used that much, say for a vacation house that you only use occasionally, I don't think it's foolish to keep operating it. Also to justify the much higher cost of an 18 SEER compared to say a 14 SEER unit, you'd have to have high energy costs and/or a lot of usage. It can cost $1500 more for one of those 18 SEER.
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Some old guys like me, bought some back when it was cheaper. 80 a pound sounds high, to me. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
While I agree that if it comes to any significant repair, it's time to scrap it, I don't think that translates into it being foolish to continue to operate an R22 system. It depends on the cost of electricity and how much you use it. If you're in a climate and/or situation where it's not used that much, say for a vacation house that you only use occasionally, I don't think it's foolish to keep operating it. Also to justify the much higher cost of an 18 SEER compared to say a 14 SEER unit, you'd have to have high energy costs and/or a lot of usage. It can cost $1500 more for one of those 18 SEER.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

About the price increase, see here:
http://www.acbyj.com/r-22priceincrease/
==================February 15th, 2013 R-22 refrigerant (freon) price Increases in 2013
The price of R-22 refrigerant has skyrocketed in the last 6 months. Due to government regulations to “phase out” the production of “ozone depleting” chemicals like Freon, production has continued to decrease and has costs to skyrocket. R-22 refrigerant is 4 times more expensive than it was just 6 months ago and is expected to continue to climb.
Due to this, contractors have bought it at an alarming rate and supplies are greatly reduced. “Panic Buying” have forced some vendors across the country to limit the amount of R-22 contractors can purchase in a month.
As the cost of R-22 rises, the cost of the new replacement Freon, R410a continues to drop. It is a simple case of supply and demand.
Federal regulations call for a 90% reduction of production of R-22 by 2015 and to be completely obsolete by 2020. What this means to consumers is outrages Freon related repair costs and eventually no choice but to replace their HVAC equipment.
Most air conditioners manufactured before 2010 us the old R-22 refrigerant.
While a R-410a unit can just as easily develop a leak as an R-22 unit can, from vibration, rust, stress cracks our sub-par welds etc., without warning, the cost to replace R-410a is a fraction of R-22. ================= Jon Edwards wrote:

I thought that R-22 was more efficient than R134 or R410 (less of a load on the compressor to achieve the same heat-transfer effect).
In any case, it's looking more and more that home owners are going the DIY route by recharging their leaking home R22 units with propane (and I know that you so-called pro's in alt.hvac will just love it when that happens).
And I don't see why not, given that the auto-ignition temp. of these refrigeration-grade propane mixes is higher than R134 and R410, and from an electrical energy usage standpoint, using propane seems to cut that down by 40%.
What I don't really understand is the safety hazzard issue of using propane.
If you have a small leak (the sort of leak that is typical in an HVAC system) it's going to take days or weeks for the system to de-pressurize to ambient pressure, and the relatively small amount of propane in the system is going to dissapate in the typical home during that time (if the leak is inside the house).
If you have a furnace malfunction (blower-motor burn-out, fan-belt breaks, over-heat cut-off malfunction) then again would you ever have a condition where a run-away plenum temperature would bake the evap coil to the point of combustion?
Could you get combustion happening *inside* the compressor due to some sort of mechanical compressor malfunction?
Some sort of accidental dammage to AC lines (either inside or outside the house) could release all of the propane within minutes or seconds - is this the combustion hazzard that the HVAC industry / gov't is worried about? Is this the only practical safety issue with using propane for home A/C recharging?
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On 4/27/2013 9:29 AM, HVAC Guy wrote:

I think I'll buy 90 lbs or so and store it right next to my stash of 100 watt incandescent bulbs.
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If propane and air are mixed in the system, the explosion can be dangerous. AC systems are designed for totally non flammable refrigerants. if there is some air in the system, and the happy home owner adds propane, the resulting explosive mix can, well, explode.
Yes, you can get sparking inside the compressor. . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
wrote:
In any case, it's looking more and more that home owners are going the DIY route by recharging their leaking home R22 units with propane (and I know that you so-called pro's in alt.hvac will just love it when that happens).
And I don't see why not, given that the auto-ignition temp. of these refrigeration-grade propane mixes is higher than R134 and R410, and from an electrical energy usage standpoint, using propane seems to cut that down by 40%.
What I don't really understand is the safety hazzard issue of using propane.
If you have a small leak (the sort of leak that is typical in an HVAC system) it's going to take days or weeks for the system to de-pressurize to ambient pressure, and the relatively small amount of propane in the system is going to dissapate in the typical home during that time (if the leak is inside the house).
If you have a furnace malfunction (blower-motor burn-out, fan-belt breaks, over-heat cut-off malfunction) then again would you ever have a condition where a run-away plenum temperature would bake the evap coil to the point of combustion?
Could you get combustion happening *inside* the compressor due to some sort of mechanical compressor malfunction?
Some sort of accidental dammage to AC lines (either inside or outside the house) could release all of the propane within minutes or seconds - is this the combustion hazzard that the HVAC industry / gov't is worried about? Is this the only practical safety issue with using propane for home A/C recharging?
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On 04/27/2013 09:55 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I would think that it would be possible for a leak to not only let propane out but let air in if it's on the low side, making that a not unlikely scenario. It should be perfectly safe IF THERE ARE NO LEAKS but do you want to bet that that is never going to happen on your system?
nate
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I don't have any verifiable proof, or examples to point to. But, I'm not going to volunteer to have my AC system exploded for science.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .
I would think that it would be possible for a leak to not only let propane out but let air in if it's on the low side, making that a not unlikely scenario. It should be perfectly safe IF THERE ARE NO LEAKS but do you want to bet that that is never going to happen on your system?
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:55:57 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

propane. Not that I would recommend using ANY of them on a refrigeration/ac system.
The big problem with propane, in my opinion, is it is a "heavier than air" flammable gas - so if it leaks in your house, and the AC coil/lines are in a asement, the gas may collect rather than disburse, and you have a very real explosion/fire hazard.
Used in an automotive AC system, unless it leaks in your below-grade or basement-connected garage, the hazards are significantly reduced.
If it leaks into the car when you are driving the mercapitan will get you out of the car before it gets dangerous (before it reaches lean explosive limit)
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On Apr 27, 12:49 pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Imagine trying to explain a AC fire in your hme from a DIY propane gas in AC. Your insurance company will be interested:(
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wrote:

Here we go again, Haller's insurance insanity.
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