Here's what (probably) happened to Higgs re avast

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1. She buys avast
2. She avails herself of their free phone help
3. That phone help was handled by a third party company called iYogi based in India
4. iYogo peddled her a wonder package.
http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/03/aghast-at-avasts-iyogi-support/ http://www.infoworld.com/t/cringely/the-downward-dog-spiral-iyogi-exposed-189712 http://www.itworld.com/it-managementstrategy/260532/steer-clear-iyogis-scareware-tactics
Avast has now dumped iYogi. To my mind, avast should step up and reconcile her problems.
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On Saturday, August 23, 2014 7:13:38 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:

Yes, good job! I agree that's almost certainly what HB's experience is all about. And clearly she should complain to AVAST, citing those excellent links you provided. And I agree that AVAST shares some responsibility in this. It would be interesting to know what the exact relationship is between AVAST and iYogi, ie is AVAST paying iYogi or is iYogi doing it for free in return for being able to sign up paid customers, or is iYogi paying AVAST.
And if she wants to complain to a govt agency, it's clear that the FTC would be the place to go.
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On 8/23/2014 8:47 AM, trader_4 wrote:

HB, he/she/it, has originally posted rant in garden group and had gotten hosed at $179 for the service.
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To my mind, the only relationship between avast and iYogi that matters is that avast - the principal - agreed to let iYogi function as their agent. Principals are always responsible for their agents' actions regardless of the financial arangements between them.

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On Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:25:28 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:

I tend to agree, but the devil is always in the details. The question would be was iYogi really the agent for Avast for whatever product HB was seeking support? Suppose I have a free product, like the free versions of Avast, that have no support? Let's say I put on their website that I don't offer support for that product, but you can buy support at XYZ, phone #, etc. And then it turns out that XYZ commits a fraud. Am I still liable?
At the other end of the spectrum, Avast makes it look like they are offering the support themselves, while farming it out. In that case, I think we agree that Avast is on the hook. And from the link to what is still on Avast, it sure looks like this is in fact what is really going on.
But, the real problem is, other than appealing to Avast and hoping to get lucky, IDK how HB can recover. What those articles show is that there is some unethical dishonest stuff going on, but it doesn't prove it happened to HB. And even if you wanted to pursue it, not clear how an individual can. She could appeal to her credit card company, that's worth a try and is easy. But problem could be if too much time has passed, they may not be willing to do anything. She can file with the FTC and if they decide to do something she might participate in a settlement. But again, given that both companies involved are foreign, I doubt there is much chance of recovery.
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On Saturday, August 23, 2014 9:17:57 AM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:

is


ponsibility in this. It would be interesting to know what the exact relati onship is between AVAST and iYogi, ie is AVAST paying iYogi or is

is

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of

uld be was iYogi really the agent for Avast for whatever product HB was se eking support? Suppose I have a free product, like the free versions of A vast, that have no support? Let's say I put on their website that I don't offer support for that product, but you can buy support at XYZ, phone #, et c. And then it turns out that XYZ commits a fraud. Am I still liable?

ing

gree that Avast is on the hook. And from the link to what is still on Ava st, it sure looks like this is in fact what is really going on.

t lucky, IDK how HB can recover. What those articles show is that there is some unethical dishonest stuff going on, but it doesn't prove it happened to HB. And even if you wanted to pursue it, not clear how an individual ca n. She could appeal to her credit card company, that's worth a try and is e asy. But problem could be if too much time has passed, they may not be wil ling to do anything.
I did. At first AmEx was reluctant because (unbeknownst to me!) they have a 60-day window to dispute. However, when I cited just a FEW things that w ere done to my computer, cust. svc. agreed to take the dispute. So the $17 9 comes off my account - but that doesn't "make me whole", as they say in t he law biz.

articipate in a settlement. But again, given that both companies involved are foreign, I doubt there is much chance of recovery.
You are right, of course. I would be throwing time and money at a situatio n that in the grand scheme of things is picayune.
My basic interest is getting my computer fixed.
So if Avast isn't PROMPTLY forthcoming about arranging to fixing my compute r, and I have to hire $omebody, I do plan to take them to Small Claims, si nce they have a presence in CA and maybe other states. And of course dedic ate myself to besmirching their name anywhere I can.
All in all, I got a cheap lesson in -- I'm not sure WHAT! Transaction seem ed perfectly straightforward -- though with 20-20 hindsight, from what folk s are saying here, a more clued-in user could have detected that the promis e and the price were unrealistic.
Tx to all
HB
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Higgs Boson wrote:

Hi, Did any one hear what problem the computer has? What OS? Desktop, laptop? I am quite curious?
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On Saturday, August 23, 2014 6:00:04 PM UTC-7, Tony Hwang wrote:

puter, and I have to hire $omebody, I do plan to take them to Small Claims , since they have a presence in CA and maybe other states. And of course d edicate myself to besmirching their name anywhere I can.

seemed perfectly straightforward -- though with 20-20 hindsight, from what folks are saying here, a more clued-in user could have detected that the pr omise and the price were unrealistic.

Tony, it's a desktop, Windows 7, and had accumulated a lot of small problem s over time. It happens; junque sneaks in, esp. when user is not tech savv y. Three of their (incompetent) techs took many hours of my time and left me w orse off than before. Hard to imagine how they could, but...!
HB
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On 8/23/2014 9:00 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

> computer has? What OS? Desktop,

Not a word, so far. And this conversation had plenty of replies, speculation, etc. After all, it's a computer question on a home repair group. Very successful troll.
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On Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:22:20 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

You missed this:
"Tony, it's a desktop, Windows 7, and had accumulated a lot of small problems over time. It happens; junque sneaks in, esp. when user is not tech savvy. Three of their (incompetent) techs took many hours of my time and left me worse off than before. Hard to imagine how they could, but...!"
There is still no specifics as to the problems though. She says the tech support people spent several hours trying to fix it. I don't know if they are competent or not, but I'd say if they did try to help her for hours, then it's not *fraud*, which is what she is claiming.
I've said several times now that after years of service, it's not unusual for a PC to accumulate problems. Everything from occasionally locking up, to slowing down mysteriously, some programs that should install, won;t, etc. You can try some things that might work, sounds like the support people may have done that. But most times, in my experience, there isn't anything you can do that will fix those kinds of mystery problems that slowly crop up over years, short of restoring the PC back to it's original as-shipped software load. Which isn't difficult to do and it's a guaranteed fix. I've suggested it several times now. Anyone want to bet that the support folks did too?
Folks should also look back to HB's original post, where while accusing Avast of fraud, she says that Avast has ignored her:
"They do not answer Certified Mail and emails, so it looks like they are blowing me off. "
Now she just admitted in a new post that they did respond to her both by phone and mail a few days ago.
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To my mind, the only relationship between avast and iYogi that matters is that avast - the principal - agreed to let iYogi function as their agent. Principals are always responsible for their agents' actions regardless of the financial arangements between them.

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On Saturday, August 23, 2014 7:25:28 AM UTC-7, dadiOH wrote:

Remember, dadiOH, that it's not yet sure, despite your good research, that these Yogi folks are the perps. As I reported earlier, all 3 of them spoke accentless American English, not the kind you hear from India.
Whoever done me wrong, Avast has to stand behind whoever used their name, whether wittingly or unwittingly.
Now have yourself a jolly little weekend! But save some steam for Labor Day.
HB
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On Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:13:46 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:

Attention everyone! I'm affiliated with HB and I'm now offering lifetime service on all your home appliances for $199. I'll fix *anything* that goes wrong. Give me your CC #'s and I'll ring them up right now.
HB, will you stand behind the claims from all the folks that send me money?
IMO what makes the whole claim for *fraud* against Avast dubious is that even HB admits that whatever company is selling the phone support contract, they helped her on a previous occasion and they spent several hours trying to help her this time. That might be incompetence, but it doesn't sound like fraud. I'm not even sure about the incompetence part, because everyone knows that there are some PC problems that can only be fixed by reinstalling the OS or even better, returning the PC to the as-shipped software load. Did the support folks suggest doing that?
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Higgs Boson wrote:

Hmm, I am somewhat surprised, you don't have any neighbors or friends, family member who is good with computers? I am a PE who spent almost 40 years in the field. As retired senior, I provide free help to neighbors whoever asks for my help. If new parts is needed, I don't even buy the part myself. I just tell them "You need xyz part, go get it" Often I set up home theater, home net work, etc. too. Lots of fun configuring remote controls. It is a good feeling helping others.
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Oren - I think you over-reacted. IF indeed she was tols Avast could fix anything o her computer for the $179 "premium" she paid, and they were unable to fix it, she can expect her money back - and using Small Claims Court is often an effective way to do it. It will cost them more than the settlement to reperesent themselves in court. She needs to name Avast and the retailer where she purchaced it, as well as the salesperson if she has the name.. If she has a record od the time they spent and what they did it could help her.
To get MORE than what she paid out would be more difficult unless she could prove financial loss directly attributable to their failure to perform.
Since she has succeded in getting her credit card charge reversed, her chances of getting re-imbursement through small claims court have gone down a few notches. She now needs to convince the small claims judge she has suffered a defineable loss due to their inability to perform. That may prove difficult - it may not.
This is not a fraud case, and is not in criminal court. They won't "eat her lunch" - but I would not advise pursuing it at this point. Her chances of getting anything would likely be somewhere less than 25%, and there IS the (extremely slim) chance she would be assigned costs - need to pay court costs.
If she had not gotten the repate through the credit card company, Small claims court would have been a perfectly valid route to take.
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On Saturday, August 23, 2014 5:06:29 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

puter, and I have to hire $omebody, I do plan to take them to Small Claims , since they have a presence in CA and maybe other states. And of course d edicate myself to Sara Meric < snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com anywhere I can.

If you follow the thread, as far as I can see, she didn't purchase anything from Avast. She was talked into a $170 support contract on the phone by the third party company that does support for Avast. There isn't any retailer, salesperson, etc. And whoever did the phone pitch is in India.

Again, from what I've seen that hasn't happened. She said they agreed to take the dispute. HB turned that into "so it comes off my card" and you turned it into she succeeded in getting it reversed. So far, all they are doing is starting the dispute process. How it will turn out is still open.

Oh please. If she got her money back from the CC company, as you apparentl y believe, she has no further case.

If you read the various links DaddiOH provided, it sure looks like it could be fraud. It meets the definition of fraudulant sales practices, at the very least, assuming HB can prove that they did to her, what they did in those other cases.
They won't

I guess that depends on your definition. Is losing enough? Not collecting enough? You do know that both these companies are foreign, right?


She hasn't gotten a refund from the CC company either. And good luck with small claims against two companies that aren't even in the USA. They might not even show up, she could win, then good luck collecting.
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I would not rant, I would not rave, I would not threaten. I would briefly, accurately and politely relate what happened, the result and ask for whatever you want them to do.
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On Saturday, August 23, 2014 5:13:00 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:

Good question. But she doesn't appear interested in solving the problem.

We really don't know what Avast does or doesn't do. They might have a different support company for their paid products or they might do it themselves. They might just send people using the free product to iYogi in India.
The third party company did nothing wrong

I think that depends on what tactics they used to make the sale. If they did what was done in those other cases you posted, it is likley a violation of laws barring fraudulent sales tactics. And in my experience, when a company does what was cited in those other cases, it's not unusual for them to be shystering in other areas, like hiring incompetents who can't actually help people.

The damages could just be her $180, unless she gets it back from the CC company, which she might. If that happens, then I agree, she isn't going to prove any more damages.
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On Saturday, August 23, 2014 2:13:00 PM UTC-7, dadiOH wrote:


I did just that to Steckler several weeks ago. (Probably not a good idea to post the letter, all things considered.) I am experienced in writing business letters, you will be glad to know.
Besides, I was never asking the NG to fix my computer; I was asking -- for the nth time! -- whether there was an entity out there to which one could complain.
Some weeks after I wrote -- just a few days ago-- I got a preliminary phone call and email from Avast and am now awaiting a reply to my emailed reply.
I appreciate your civilized response, particularly as your research informs me that I may not be the only Avast customer with this problem.
HB
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On 8/23/2014 10:05 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

> with my computer, but that isn't nor ever was, > the purpose of the thread.

I sense a contradiction, here. In any case, it would be nice if you'd tell the home repair list if your computer problem (that supposedly caused all this uproar) is still active, or been repaired.
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