Here's one for the telephone guys

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I am having a problem receiving calls. Firs the telco said there check from there end showed a short on the line.
They advised unplugging all the phones but one and add them back one at a time. Lousy idea. it is hard to prove a negative. Next test: take a believed to be good phone out to the net work box. Disconnect from the house and plug in directly to the telco line. Had someone call me several times. problem still persisted. caller said there was one ring at the calling end and then the message that the called party had been disconnected. Repeated the test using a second wired phone at the box. Same result.
Called telco again to report results. They set an appointment for service this am. Then telco called and said they had fixed problem from there end. Then there was a computer generated call asking if I agreed the problem had been fixed. I responded NO. Then a live body called back and I said that I would need a few days to be assured that it was really fixed. OK and keep the appointment with the service guy.
Service guy came and checked at the box said all was ok. When I described the scenario to him, he said that situation that sys the party had hung up was a software problem.
This afternoon, spouse tried to call home from cell phone. Same problem. Took three tries before house phone rang long enough to complete call. Typically there might have been one ring and by time you picked up a handset, the line was open.. No caller, no dial tone.
I tried calling house phone from cell while I was in the house to hear what was happening. This with only two phones plugged in. One wired one cordless. these are both "good" phones. First try had same fault. Subsequent tries (5 or 6) all ok.
I plan to rig up my ohmmeter to RJ 11/14 plug and try to see what happens as I plug phones into the house one at a time to find any anomaly.
What is the acceptable resistance range as I add phones to the system? I expect that all of the ringers are electronic.
Where do you think the problem lies? Is it me or them?
BTW, never a problem making out going calls, and PC is on cable and has no telephone modem.
Charlie
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Actually, in this case, it would be an absolutely excellent idea.
Commodore Joe Redcloud
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:37:05 GMT, Commodore Joe Redcloud

Pick your simplest, basic telephone and have it connected as your only phone for a test.
If you are still experiencing the problem of people calling and the phone only ringing once, it is likely that the problem is at the phone company central office or on the line to your house. What else could it be?
On the other hand, if you have other equipment connected, alarm dialers, answering machines, modems, maybe a PBX system, the problem is likely to be with your equipment.
One other thing you could do is borrow a lineman's headset and put it in the monitor position while listening on the line for incoming calls to see if you hear anything unusual.
Beachcomber
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Beachcomber wrote:

A low impedance fault in the house wiring or one of the connected phones.
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Excellent you say? I think not. How can I tell if anyone ever calls?
If all the phones are unplugged and nothing ever rings, nobody calls or maybe they do. How can I tell?
I can prove if something is wrong when it is supposed to happen and doesn't, but if nothing happens what has that shown?
Nothing is what it proves.
Charlie
Charlie
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Doesn't sound like you really want to solve the problem, Charlie.
Commodore Joe Redcloud
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Commodore Joe Redcloud wrote:

Charlie, I've been in the business for going on to 39 years, shut up and listen to Joe.
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You should really read the rest of the posts on this subject. And then read my original post again. Let me know if you do not understand the part that says:
Disconnect from the house and plug in directly to the telco line. Had someone call me several times. problem still persisted. caller said there was one ring at the calling end and then the message that the called party had been disconnected. Repeated the test using a second wired phone at the box. Same result.
Evidently reading is not your strong point. Maybe you should take a remedial course so you won't jump in and tell someone to shut up when you don't have a clue what is going on.
BTW Telco is coming back to fix their problem.
Charlie
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"Maybe you should take a remedial course so you won't jump in and tell someone to shut up when you don't have a clue what is going on. "
Heh Charlie, one of the first things you posted was:
"They (the phone co) advised unplugging all the phones but one and add them back one at a time. Lousy idea. it is hard to prove a negative. "
Seems everyone here but you thinks that was a good first suggestion as the phone company tried to help you. And you;re the guy who apparently can't work a phone or deal with the phone company. So, if anyone needs a remedial course, it's you!
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Charlie Bress wrote:
[snip]

This isn't addressed to you in particular, Charlie, but IIRC you said you had a NID box, so the last bit may apply. It's general info to others who may have a similar problem.
Another possibility is a DSL filter left over from a previous owner/tenant. When I worked for our telco, I had one call where a filter went short, shutting down phone service. It was installed for a previous tenant's internet.
They get left in place when internet is uninstalled, since they don't interfere with POTS (plain ol' telephone service).
Usually. ;)
Mostly they're mounted near the surge protector, but depending on the phone wiring and/or the internet installer's rush to finish and/or the customer's wishes, they can be stuck in behind a wall plate (phone, not power) somewhere in the house.
If the building has an exterior NID box, it can be located there, too.
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Charlie Bress wrote:

They didn't say to unplug all the phones. They said to unplug all the phones EXCEPT ONE.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
  Click to see the full signature.
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Actually you are right. But if they think it is a defective phone causing the problem, which one should I select to use as a "gold" standard?
Any way, I just had a line test run and it confirms a problem with the line. I submitted a repair request implicating the surge protectors. That is the diagnosis that makes technical sense.
Charlie
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You already said you have a cell phone, so you can do the test and call yourself. You can also call someone else and have them call you back to do the test.
I agree with Commodore.
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"I agree with Commodore"
Count me in too! It's only common sense to disconnect all but one basic phone that you believe is reliable.
But in this case, since it was verified that the problem existed with a single phone connected at the NTU, it's pretty obvious it's not a phone problem,
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Hey, you finally figured it out
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"Hey, you finally figured it out "
Yes, but apparently you haven't. If it doesn;t work at the NTU, it's the phone company's problem. And since you can easily demonstrate the problem to a tech standing there by using a cell phone to call the line, what more do you need?
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:33:53 -0500, "Charlie Bress"

You leave one phone plugged in and call yourself on the cell phone. Duh.
Commondor and Mortimer say it all, and you agree.
You test if you have a good phone by taking a phone to the neighbor's or to work and see if it works there.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.
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Charlie Bress wrote:

I've seen this problem before. In my case, it was a telephone line surge protector. The ring voltage is around 90v and this was triggering the surge protector & not letting the house phones ring with an incoming call. Outgoing calls were ok. Removed the surge protector & everything was ok.
Bob S.
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: : Charlie Bress wrote: : > I am having a problem receiving calls. : > Firs the telco said there check from there end showed a short on the line. : > : > They advised unplugging all the phones but one and add them back one at a : > time. Lousy idea. it is hard to prove a negative. : > Next test: take a believed to be good phone out to the net work box. : > Disconnect from the house and plug in directly to the telco line. Had : > someone call me several times. problem still persisted. caller said there : > was one ring at the calling end and then the message that the called party : > had been disconnected. Repeated the test using a second wired phone at the : > box. Same result. : > : > Called telco again to report results. They set an appointment for service : > this am. Then telco called and said they had fixed problem from there end. : > Then there was a computer generated call asking if I agreed the problem had : > been fixed. I responded NO. Then a live body called back and I said that I : > would need a few days to be assured that it was really fixed. OK and keep : > the appointment with the service guy. : > : > Service guy came and checked at the box said all was ok. When I described : > the scenario to him, he said that situation that sys the party had hung up : > was a software problem. : > : > This afternoon, spouse tried to call home from cell phone. Same problem. : > Took three tries before house phone rang long enough to complete call. : > Typically there might have been one ring and by time you picked up a : > handset, the line was open.. No caller, no dial tone. : > : > I tried calling house phone from cell while I was in the house to hear what : > was happening. This with only two phones plugged in. One wired one cordless. : > these are both "good" phones. First try had same fault. Subsequent tries (5 : > or 6) all ok. : > : > I plan to rig up my ohmmeter to RJ 11/14 plug and try to see what happens : > as I plug phones into the house one at a time to find any anomaly. : > : > What is the acceptable resistance range as I add phones to the system? I : > expect that all of the ringers are electronic. : > : > Where do you think the problem lies? : > Is it me or them? : > : > BTW, never a problem making out going calls, and PC is on cable and has no : > telephone modem. : > : > : > Charlie : : I've seen this problem before. In my case, it was a telephone line : surge protector. The ring voltage is around 90v and this was : triggering the surge protector & not letting the house phones ring with : an incoming call. Outgoing calls were ok. Removed the surge protector : & everything was ok. : : Bob S. :
Those are my thoughts, too. Depending on the installation, it's usually pretty easy to pull them out long enough to test.
Testing the DC resistance as you plug in the phones won't tell much either. It's not a DC issue unless the telco battery voltage is sagging. Are you on a long line from the telco? If so, it might be a repeater problem, meaning a telco problem. The guy that mentioned software at the telco might be onto something, but ... I think they'd be aware of that because many people would be having similar problems.
It really sounds like something somewhere is pulling enough current during ringing voltage to trip the ring voltage generator at the telco.
If you call in with all phones disconnected, will the ring still go away like that? If so, it's almost but not guaranteed, to be a telco issue. If the problem's still there, then disconnect the whole of the house wiring and see if hte problem's there. Then inform the telco.
If it's repeatable, next time you get a techie out there, show him the problem so he doesn't have to interpret anything.
HTH,
Pop
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Pop, I mentioned in my original post that the problem was still there when I had plugged in at the telco interface. That, of course, left the house out of the circuit. I also told the tech who showed up.
I have reported the problem again to the telco. I have even suggested to them that the protectors being bad is a likely cause. All phones are now plugged in again as I am sure that it is a telco problem and has nothing to do with the inside stuff. Consider the following. Fault only occurs when an incoming call (read that as ringing signal) arrives. The fault is intermittent. Not every call fails. Outbound calls never fail. Calls in progress, inbound or outbound, never have a problem.
I just went out to the NID, but the protectors are not obvious and I hesitate to tear into it too deeply, following my own advice "if you don't know what you are doing, don't do it"
My faith in the troubleshooting ability of the telco folks has diminished somewhat.
Thanks
Charlie
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