Hanging frameless kitchen wall cabinets

[benick]

Strapping is not plywood. Strapping is most commonly shimmed to correct for defects in the flatness of the ceiling joists. Strapping is also a) a regional thing, and b) far less common with engineered floor joists due to their uniformity and straightness. If the strapping is not shimmed, then the strapping will just follow the framing, like the CDX would, and you'll have exactly the same situation with an out-of-plane framing job.

Your background is in drywall, right? I'm a little different - I do it all. From the initial contact with the customer to turning over the keys. I'm hands on at every point of the project. The only trades I sub out on most jobs are HVAC and electrical.

I get frustrated with some of the lag in adopting superior construction practices. 32mm Euro-style cabinets are still resisted in the US by many people, and I'm not sure if it's industry not wanting to retool, or people liking what they grew up with, but 32mm cabinets are superior to face-frame cabinets for most reasons.

Hanging rails are standard for cabinets in Europe and they're an evolution of French cleats, which I'm guessing originated in France (and I'm sure elsewhere as it's an obvious solution). They solve many problems and have no real drawbacks.

Yep, I know. Tiling is one of those things that gets slapped up by a lot of people, including people who call themselves professional installers.

I can install the, what?, three or four pieces of blocking that would be required in an average kitchen, faster than someone could cover a wall with plywood, the cost would be a lot cheaper, I can use scrap wood, I won't be changing the wall depth - which affects window and door trim, eats into floor area for no reason, complicates future work, etc. I've also found that saying, "Okay! That's it! NO more changes." doesn't always work. If something needs to move, it needs to move.

I don't see the harm.

I'm just telling you what I've seen over the last 20 years around here (New England) by many contractors and I can't really speak for them nor defend the practice as they would....Seems to work pretty good for them though....Strapping even not shimmed will help ALOT in the flatness of the ceiling...Atleast to the eye..THAT I do know....Around here even engineered joists get strapped unless in a garage , ect....Interesting your Euro-cabinets haven't caught on here in the States....Are they THAT much more , money wise ??? Or just ugly ??? Got a link with pics ?? I agree on telling homeowners NO MORE CHANGES doesn't always work , atleast untill you tell them they are out of money and going over budget.....Then you get that scared look from them and things get finished up.....

[benick]

re: "As far as the next homeowner or contractor goes , once they poke a hole it will be apparent what is going on considering how common it is...At least around here."

I'd like to hear just how common it is. I've never heard of it before, but that doesn't mean it isn't common so don't jump on me for saying that.

RJ brought up the rest of the things that I thought of but didn't mention.

The 1/2" less floorspace doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but the door and window depth could. Wouldn't you need different (non- standard?) trim for any openings on that wall?

Earlier you said "Depends on the value of your TIME I guess" and added that the cabinets would go up very quickly. Wouldn't some of the "timed saved" be eaten up by the inefficiencies of having to deal with trim work that is different from every other wall in the house?

I'm looking at the wall in my kitchen, where only 2/3 is covered by cabinets. Let's go all the way back to when the house was being built. Assuming the situation you mentioned where you don't know exactly where the cabinets are going, they would have had to either put 1/2 ply on the entire wall or extra 1/2 drywall where they were sure the cabinets *wouldn't* go. Now, unless they're using 1/2" drywall everywhere else in the house, that's more "one-off" material that needs to be available, possibly resulting in more waste.

Obviously, you've dealt with this practice, but it's very foreign to me and I just keep thinking of all the implications of doing it. Not arguing...just making conversation.

You would do the whole wall in plywood with drywall over it....Windows require an extension jamb anyway and that one would be 7/16" wider..No extra work...The door (if you didn't ORDER the right jamb size) would need an extension jamb..Which would take a few minutes but would still be easier than hunting for nailers while holding cabinets up...If the door went to the garage , as is often the case , it would already be an abnormal wall (sheathing and 5/8 drywall on the garage side)that would need to be ordered or an extension jamb ripped anyway...No extra work..The rest of the trim is the same....Not a finish carpenter but that part seems cut and dry..Maybe Ric will chime in.....As I keep saying , I'm just passing on what some of the pro's do around here , and to me atleast , sounds easier...I just do the drywall part...Except at home ofcourse...LOL...I made extension jambs for my new windows and trimmed them out ...Doors too but they didn't need extension jambs....Piece of cake.........

[desgnr]

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[benick]

"Will 4 screws ( 2 top/2 bottom) into studs be enough for a 36 wide by 30

Depends on whether you plan on filling it with canned goods...Is it a stand alone ???

[RicodJour]

What type and size of screws?

R

[desgnr]

What type and size of screws?

R

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[RicodJour]

If those are drywall screws, no, I wouldn't trust them, and they're too short anyway. The holding power of a screw is dependent on the type of screw (for screw material strength - drywall screws are hard, brittle and don't take shear or impact well), the size (gauge) of the screw, and the depth of penetration into the stud.

R