GFI bathroom re wiring

[stryped1]

I am trying to add a few GFI outlets to my wife's bathroom. I also have to move one of the outlets because of a larger mirror that I will be installin g to make wife and daughter happy.

The problem is, I know it is against code to put a junction box inside the wall. And I think leaving it outside will cause my framed mirror to not sit flat.

I spent all weekend trying to track down wires. I figured out the entire br eaker is dedicated to the bathroom GFI's only. I have only 3 outlets curren tly on this entire 20 amp circuit.

The power goes to the outlet I want to move from above in the attic. Howeve r, from this outlet it goes to two other bathrooms and I cant find the wire s that branch the outlets together. I am guessing it is through the studs w hen they built the house and as such, they may be inaccessible or if they d o go into the attic are covered under the floor of my bonus room to which I have no access because the bonus room is finished.

As I see it I have two options:

1. somehow leave the current outlet and make it into a junction box and som ehow recess a new box so that the access cover would be flush with the wall . Then run a wire from this box into the crawl space then to the two new ou tlets in the bathroom.

1. Maybe more work but a more proper solution would be to install a junctio n box in the attic where the current feed is to the existing outlet, run a wire from this junction box down the entire length of the wall into the cra wl space. Install another junction box in the crawl space and make the conn ection to the new outlets here. I would also have to run new wires from the two other outlets in the two other bathrooms into the crawl space to tie i nto the junction box. (Doing it this way requires new wiring on the entire circuit but eliminates an accessible junction box being required in the wal l).

One thing I wondered. This is a GFI circuit. The breaker is not GFI but the outlets are. If I have connections in the crawl space where sometimes ther e is a little moisture after a lot of rain, will I have trouble with the GF I tripping? My idea would be to use one of those outside metal moisture pro of boxes but just run regular 12/2 wire to this junction. Would using condu it to this junction be a better idea?

Any help is appreciated!

[philoÂÂ]

But if it has an outlet (or plate) it's ok.

I believe you are referring to a junction box with no access to it...which is not code.

[trader4]

o move one of the outlets because of a larger mirror that I will be install ing to make wife and daughter happy.

e wall. And I think leaving it outside will cause my framed mirror to not s it flat.

I've never seen a framed mirror where the small thickness of a blank plate would matter. I have two such mirrors over blanked over outlets here.

breaker is dedicated to the bathroom GFI's only. I have only 3 outlets curr ently on this entire 20 amp circuit.

ver, from this outlet it goes to two other bathrooms and I cant find the wi res that branch the outlets together. I am guessing it is through the studs when they built the house and as such, they may be inaccessible or if they do go into the attic are covered under the floor of my bonus room to which I have no access because the bonus room is finished.

Even if it's through the studs, there should be evidence in the outlet boxes. One must be the last one and have only one cable coming in. It's likely the other two will have one cable coming in, one going out. And if they are existing GFCI protected, one of them must be the GFCI. So the wiring should be GFCI is first, other outlet with two cables is in the middle, last one has only one cable. You can tap on to any one of those. If you tap onto the one that has a GFCI, you tap onto the load side.

omehow recess a new box so that the access cover would be flush with the wa ll. Then run a wire from this box into the crawl space then to the two new outlets in the bathroom.

You don't say where the existing GFCI is in the circuit. I assume it's at one of the 3 existing outlets? Assuming this plan results in you tying into the GFCI protected circuit, ie downstream of the GFCI, then it will work and you just use regular outlets for the new ones.

ion box in the attic where the current feed is to the existing outlet, run a wire from this junction box down the entire length of the wall into the c rawl space. Install another junction box in the crawl space and make the co nnection to the new outlets here. I would also have to run new wires from t he two other outlets in the two other bathrooms into the crawl space to tie into the junction box. (Doing it this way requires new wiring on the entir e circuit but eliminates an accessible junction box being required in the w all).

Why can't you access where you need to tie in from the attic by going down inside the wall to one of the existing outlets directly without first going down to the crawlspace and then back up?

he outlets are. If I have connections in the crawl space where sometimes th ere is a little moisture after a lot of rain, will I have trouble with the GFI tripping? My idea would be to use one of those outside metal moisture p roof boxes but just run regular 12/2 wire to this junction. Would using con duit to this junction be a better idea?

A properly installed box in a crawl space should not trip a GFCI.

[stryped1]

o move one of the outlets because of a larger mirror that I will be install ing to make wife and daughter happy.

e wall. And I think leaving it outside will cause my framed mirror to not s it flat.

breaker is dedicated to the bathroom GFI's only. I have only 3 outlets curr ently on this entire 20 amp circuit.

ver, from this outlet it goes to two other bathrooms and I cant find the wi res that branch the outlets together. I am guessing it is through the studs when they built the house and as such, they may be inaccessible or if they do go into the attic are covered under the floor of my bonus room to which I have no access because the bonus room is finished.

omehow recess a new box so that the access cover would be flush with the wa ll. Then run a wire from this box into the crawl space then to the two new outlets in the bathroom.

ion box in the attic where the current feed is to the existing outlet, run a wire from this junction box down the entire length of the wall into the c rawl space. Install another junction box in the crawl space and make the co nnection to the new outlets here. I would also have to run new wires from t he two other outlets in the two other bathrooms into the crawl space to tie into the junction box. (Doing it this way requires new wiring on the entir e circuit but eliminates an accessible junction box being required in the w all).

he outlets are. If I have connections in the crawl space where sometimes th ere is a little moisture after a lot of rain, will I have trouble with the GFI tripping? My idea would be to use one of those outside metal moisture p roof boxes but just run regular 12/2 wire to this junction. Would using con duit to this junction be a better idea?

My upstairs is a finished bonus room. Above where my new outlet will go is a finished floor with a joist that prevents acess past it.

What I am thinking now is just running a new circuit to one of the new outl ets. Someone told me with two hair dryers going at the same time might trip the 20 amp breaker. Especially since they are using curling irons too. Wou ld it be stupid to have one outlet on its own breaker? If you were to run w ire in your crawl space, would you use regular 12/2 or conduit with 12/2? S hould the wire be stapled to the bottom of the floor joists or inside the j oist bay with holes drilled across joists?

I appreciate any help!

[stryped1]

o move one of the outlets because of a larger mirror that I will be install ing to make wife and daughter happy.

e wall. And I think leaving it outside will cause my framed mirror to not s it flat.

breaker is dedicated to the bathroom GFI's only. I have only 3 outlets curr ently on this entire 20 amp circuit.

ver, from this outlet it goes to two other bathrooms and I cant find the wi res that branch the outlets together. I am guessing it is through the studs when they built the house and as such, they may be inaccessible or if they do go into the attic are covered under the floor of my bonus room to which I have no access because the bonus room is finished.

omehow recess a new box so that the access cover would be flush with the wa ll. Then run a wire from this box into the crawl space then to the two new outlets in the bathroom.

ion box in the attic where the current feed is to the existing outlet, run a wire from this junction box down the entire length of the wall into the c rawl space. Install another junction box in the crawl space and make the co nnection to the new outlets here. I would also have to run new wires from t he two other outlets in the two other bathrooms into the crawl space to tie into the junction box. (Doing it this way requires new wiring on the entir e circuit but eliminates an accessible junction box being required in the w all).

he outlets are. If I have connections in the crawl space where sometimes th ere is a little moisture after a lot of rain, will I have trouble with the GFI tripping? My idea would be to use one of those outside metal moisture p roof boxes but just run regular 12/2 wire to this junction. Would using con duit to this junction be a better idea?

[trader4]

to move one of the outlets because of a larger mirror that I will be insta lling to make wife and daughter happy.

the wall. And I think leaving it outside will cause my framed mirror to not sit flat.

e breaker is dedicated to the bathroom GFI's only. I have only 3 outlets cu rrently on this entire 20 amp circuit.

wever, from this outlet it goes to two other bathrooms and I cant find the wires that branch the outlets together. I am guessing it is through the stu ds when they built the house and as such, they may be inaccessible or if th ey do go into the attic are covered under the floor of my bonus room to whi ch I have no access because the bonus room is finished.

somehow recess a new box so that the access cover would be flush with the wall. Then run a wire from this box into the crawl space then to the two ne w outlets in the bathroom.

ction box in the attic where the current feed is to the existing outlet, ru n a wire from this junction box down the entire length of the wall into the crawl space. Install another junction box in the crawl space and make the connection to the new outlets here. I would also have to run new wires from the two other outlets in the two other bathrooms into the crawl space to t ie into the junction box. (Doing it this way requires new wiring on the ent ire circuit but eliminates an accessible junction box being required in the wall).

the outlets are. If I have connections in the crawl space where sometimes there is a little moisture after a lot of rain, will I have trouble with th e GFI tripping? My idea would be to use one of those outside metal moisture proof boxes but just run regular 12/2 wire to this junction. Would using c onduit to this junction be a better idea?

s a finished floor with a joist that prevents acess past it.

tlets. Someone told me with two hair dryers going at the same time might tr ip the 20 amp breaker.

20 amps is 2400 watts, so I think if they are both reasonable size ones and on high at the same time, they would trip it. Check the actual ones for wattage.

Also, for a bathroom, since you're getting rid of one outlet, be aware that there must be an outlet near each sink, i believe it's within 3ft. If you have 2 sinks, one outlet can serve both if it's between them.

Especially since they are using curling irons too. Would it be stupid to h ave one outlet on its own breaker? If you were to run wire in your crawl sp ace, would you use regular 12/2 or conduit with 12/2? Should the wire be st apled to the bottom of the floor joists or inside the joist bay with holes drilled across joists?

No, it's not stupid to have one outlet on it's own breaker. In your example, if you had several outlets in a bathroom on one breaker and you were running into concerns like you have over hair dryer load, etc, nothing wrong with separating an outlet by one sink onto it's own breaker.

regular 12/2 NM, ie Romex, is fine. If running along a joist, they should be stapled to the sides. When running at an angle, I believe for a crawlspace it needs to be either through holes or use running boards.

[stryped1]

o move one of the outlets because of a larger mirror that I will be install ing to make wife and daughter happy.

e wall. And I think leaving it outside will cause my framed mirror to not s it flat.

breaker is dedicated to the bathroom GFI's only. I have only 3 outlets curr ently on this entire 20 amp circuit.

ver, from this outlet it goes to two other bathrooms and I cant find the wi res that branch the outlets together. I am guessing it is through the studs when they built the house and as such, they may be inaccessible or if they do go into the attic are covered under the floor of my bonus room to which I have no access because the bonus room is finished.

omehow recess a new box so that the access cover would be flush with the wa ll. Then run a wire from this box into the crawl space then to the two new outlets in the bathroom.

ion box in the attic where the current feed is to the existing outlet, run a wire from this junction box down the entire length of the wall into the c rawl space. Install another junction box in the crawl space and make the co nnection to the new outlets here. I would also have to run new wires from t he two other outlets in the two other bathrooms into the crawl space to tie into the junction box. (Doing it this way requires new wiring on the entir e circuit but eliminates an accessible junction box being required in the w all).

he outlets are. If I have connections in the crawl space where sometimes th ere is a little moisture after a lot of rain, will I have trouble with the GFI tripping? My idea would be to use one of those outside metal moisture p roof boxes but just run regular 12/2 wire to this junction. Would using con duit to this junction be a better idea?

Is there a minimum distance an outlet can be from a bathtub?

[clare]

Separate cercuits to each bathroom GFCI would make sense. Only problem might be getting 20 amp GFCI. Romex stapled to the sides of the joist bay and drilled across the joists is the proper way to do it. If you are worried about moisture use NMW instead of NWD cable - designed for danp or weather exposed installation.

[trader4]

to move one of the outlets because of a larger mirror that I will be insta lling to make wife and daughter happy.

the wall. And I think leaving it outside will cause my framed mirror to not sit flat.

e breaker is dedicated to the bathroom GFI's only. I have only 3 outlets cu rrently on this entire 20 amp circuit.

wever, from this outlet it goes to two other bathrooms and I cant find the wires that branch the outlets together. I am guessing it is through the stu ds when they built the house and as such, they may be inaccessible or if th ey do go into the attic are covered under the floor of my bonus room to whi ch I have no access because the bonus room is finished.

somehow recess a new box so that the access cover would be flush with the wall. Then run a wire from this box into the crawl space then to the two ne w outlets in the bathroom.

ction box in the attic where the current feed is to the existing outlet, ru n a wire from this junction box down the entire length of the wall into the crawl space. Install another junction box in the crawl space and make the connection to the new outlets here. I would also have to run new wires from the two other outlets in the two other bathrooms into the crawl space to t ie into the junction box. (Doing it this way requires new wiring on the ent ire circuit but eliminates an accessible junction box being required in the wall).

the outlets are. If I have connections in the crawl space where sometimes there is a little moisture after a lot of rain, will I have trouble with th e GFI tripping? My idea would be to use one of those outside metal moisture proof boxes but just run regular 12/2 wire to this junction. Would using c onduit to this junction be a better idea?

It looks to me like code says you can't have it in the bathtub footprint area extended up vertically. So, can't put it on a wall around the bathtub, which is kind of obvious. But on the wall just past the bathtub, or around the corner is OK. I'd still use some common sense, like close but around a corner would be better than on a wall 2" past the bathtub that you could easily reach. Has to be GFCI too, of course.

[clare]

Without a GFCI, yess. 6 feet IIRC. With GFCI I don't think so.

[gfretwell]

Exactly right. That is called "tub space".

[gfretwell]

I can't speak for the Great White North but the NEC (US) requires GFCI protected receptacles in the bathroom no matter where it is in the bathroom.

[DerbyDad03]

...snip...

Just to be clear, it would be better to say "Has to be GFCI _protected_"

[Stormin Mormon]

outlet will go is a finished floor with a joist that prevents

acess past it.

SM: SOmething called a "drill" they used to make.

of the new outlets. Someone told me with two hair dryers going

at the same time might trip the 20 amp breaker.

SM: Two 15 amp dryers, together tripping a 20 amp breaker? I can imagine that.

Especially since they are using curling irons too. Would it be stupid to have one outlet on its own breaker?

SM: No, I'd leave a couple outlets on the same breaker. When the girls get tired of tripping the breaker, they will take turn on one hair dryer. You don't want to be paying for 30 amps of electric heat, every day of the year as they figure they can run em all at the same time.

If you were to run wire in your crawl space, would you use regular 12/2 or conduit with 12/2?

SM: I thought conduit used THNN? Stranded single conductor wire. In any case, Romex is good unless you have critters who chew on wires.

Should the wire be stapled to the bottom of the floor joists

SM: Should be fine.

or inside the joist bay with holes drilled across joists?

Sm: More work.

SM: Quite all right.

[Metspitzer]

Newer codes requires that each bathroom has a 20A GFCI outlet. Since you don't normally have but one (blow dryer) in use at a time, you could have many bathrooms on the same circuit without any problem. If you do have more than one person using a blow dryer at a time, the breaker trips and you have to reset it. It is really not a hazard, but it could be a nuisance. It just depends on how much of a nuisance you consider it to whether you want to spend more money on having more than one circuit.

If you delete the box behind the mirror (and you should if you can't make the box accessible), all you need to do is make sure the downstream circuit is still GFCI protected and it meets code.

I would not consider under the house moisture to be a problem for a GFCI. A receptacle you add outside might be different.

[Metspitzer]

I would think all GFCIs would be 20A since they are required to be on

20A circuits for kitchen and bath.

[Metspitzer]

Correction I would think all GFCIs "should" be 20A, but they are not.

[clare]

Stapled on the bottom and across the joists is not code compliant.

[stryped1]

o move one of the outlets because of a larger mirror that I will be install ing to make wife and daughter happy.

e wall. And I think leaving it outside will cause my framed mirror to not s it flat.

breaker is dedicated to the bathroom GFI's only. I have only 3 outlets curr ently on this entire 20 amp circuit.

ver, from this outlet it goes to two other bathrooms and I cant find the wi res that branch the outlets together. I am guessing it is through the studs when they built the house and as such, they may be inaccessible or if they do go into the attic are covered under the floor of my bonus room to which I have no access because the bonus room is finished.

omehow recess a new box so that the access cover would be flush with the wa ll. Then run a wire from this box into the crawl space then to the two new outlets in the bathroom.

ion box in the attic where the current feed is to the existing outlet, run a wire from this junction box down the entire length of the wall into the c rawl space. Install another junction box in the crawl space and make the co nnection to the new outlets here. I would also have to run new wires from t he two other outlets in the two other bathrooms into the crawl space to tie into the junction box. (Doing it this way requires new wiring on the entir e circuit but eliminates an accessible junction box being required in the w all).

he outlets are. If I have connections in the crawl space where sometimes th ere is a little moisture after a lot of rain, will I have trouble with the GFI tripping? My idea would be to use one of those outside metal moisture p roof boxes but just run regular 12/2 wire to this junction. Would using con duit to this junction be a better idea?

Is it code compliant to run romex in conduit? Is it proper to do? Just tryi ng to make the installation as protected as possible. Nothing should happen but I have a lot of moisture in the crawlspace. More than should be. My du ct work is dripping wet in the summer. I need to figure out something on th at.

Also, a lot of large city's require nothing but metal conduit and don't eve n allow romex. Is EMT with individual wires inside the ultimate installatio n in terms od longevity and protection?

Just wondering. I tend to overthink/overbuild stuff when I do it.

[trader4]

:

ave to move one of the outlets because of a larger mirror that I will be in stalling to make wife and daughter happy.

de the wall. And I think leaving it outside will cause my framed mirror to not sit flat.

tire breaker is dedicated to the bathroom GFI's only. I have only 3 outlets currently on this entire 20 amp circuit.

However, from this outlet it goes to two other bathrooms and I cant find t he wires that branch the outlets together. I am guessing it is through the studs when they built the house and as such, they may be inaccessible or if they do go into the attic are covered under the floor of my bonus room to which I have no access because the bonus room is finished.

and somehow recess a new box so that the access cover would be flush with t he wall. Then run a wire from this box into the crawl space then to the two new outlets in the bathroom.

junction box in the attic where the current feed is to the existing outlet, run a wire from this junction box down the entire length of the wall into the crawl space. Install another junction box in the crawl space and make t he connection to the new outlets here. I would also have to run new wires f rom the two other outlets in the two other bathrooms into the crawl space t o tie into the junction box. (Doing it this way requires new wiring on the entire circuit but eliminates an accessible junction box being required in the wall).

but the outlets are. If I have connections in the crawl space where sometim es there is a little moisture after a lot of rain, will I have trouble with the GFI tripping? My idea would be to use one of those outside metal moist ure proof boxes but just run regular 12/2 wire to this junction. Would usin g conduit to this junction be a better idea?

o is a finished floor with a joist that prevents acess past it.

outlets. Someone told me with two hair dryers going at the same time might trip the 20 amp breaker. Especially since they are using curling irons too . Would it be stupid to have one outlet on its own breaker? If you were to run wire in your crawl space, would you use regular 12/2 or conduit with 12 /2? Should the wire be stapled to the bottom of the floor joists or inside the joist bay with holes drilled across joists?

Suppose you had an old outdoor outlet on a 15A circuit and you wanted to replace it with a GFCI to make it safer? If they only came in 20A, then what?

Also, you can put a 15A GFCI on a 20 amp circuit, just like you can put 15A outlets on a 20 amp circuit. Both are rated for 20A feed-through.